Sponsorship workshop in Austin, TX

I think I did it right. If I didn't, we'll find out real fast. Off to a good start. Hey, doctor. My own is my Kramer.

I'm an alcoholic. Hey, Mike. What an absolute treat. We have been trying to do this again for a couple of years and we could never get dates worked out and when it finally did, it it did. It was just just the coolest.

There's nothing I'd rather do than this here. We we get to talk about a lot of other stuff sometimes, but this thing about sponsorship and about working the work and about trying to get through there in some timely fashion is is is my big soapbox deal. I love this stuff. I know that over the years, you know, people say one of your twins is the good one and one's the bad one. And it it's always I always say it's Chris is the bad one, but after we get finished talking about this, some of you guys are gonna be going, no.

You're the evil twin. I know you are. I'm I'm I'm rabid about about following the book and the dictates that the book laid out. Years ago, doctor Bob broke this little piece. And in this piece, he said that there's no such thing as a personal interpretation of the 12 steps.

And yet, what we've done over the years is we've got this thing worked out where we have a whole bunch of people, lovely, beautiful people with personal interpretations of what the big book is and was and what we were supposed to be doing and how we were supposed to be working the steps. And as a process on this thing, that thing called a common solution that they talk about has kind of drifted right out the window. And so you got a lot of guys that go, well, I don't really believe that. Oh, you don't? Well, follow me around and go to as many groups as I get a chance to talk to and watch how those meetings are conducted, and you'll know exactly you'll be you'll be crystal clear on that point.

Every every AA group is not the same, and we don't want them to be the same. It's not necessary to be the same, but the message should be the same. That common solution, wherever you go, ought to be the same. That's why they call it a common solution. So the the effort here is not at least some there's there's a part of me that gets really weird about this stuff because I don't want to be perceived as some guru of the big book.

I'm not. I'm I'm I'm just a drunk, a fairly pathetic drunk at that, who who who loves the literature and has seen this thing from 2 different perspectives. Some of you guys that know me and have heard my story, a lot of you have, know that I sobered up in 88 2 months after Chris did and, and I started AA and loved AA from the very first meeting I was ever in. That smoke filled room was the coolest place I'd ever been in with a bunch of these people that loved me to death. And and I got better and better and then I began to get sicker and sicker and there was nothing to stop that downward slide of me getting sick again because we weren't talking about anything called a solution.

We were talking about something called fellowship. And I'm telling you, I'm the poster boy of middle of the road solution. I will do any thing in the world to avoid anything that looks like work or discipline. I don't want any piece of it, and I am rabid about that. And and what happened was that imagine I mean, some of you guys are there.

Some of you guys know exactly what I'm talking about. You're sitting right here in a meeting, and you got all this big circle, and everybody's sharing. And you just you come into the meeting already a little beat up, and by the end of the meeting, you're just, like, ready to slide off onto the floor. You're just praying. Somebody's gotta catch me.

Somebody has gotta tell me what it is that I'm missing that's keeping me from getting what everybody else seems to be getting. And it's just you guys understand that. Well, some of you anyway. Some of you new guys that are still enthused about the the the the endless discussion meeting and you can't wait to get to another one to spill your guts, some of this you may not understand yet. All I want you to do is fast forward somewhat.

Spend some time with some of these older guys in the room that have been through that grinder, and watch what happens. And maybe you'll avoid that stuff. The only thing you gotta do to avoid it is to learn what's in the big book and to learn what we have to do in order to recover. Because once you understand what it is, everything about your perception of AA and your discussion meeting thing will change. It'll shift.

It's like it's like I'm sitting in the meeting and and in these lame discussion meetings that go on ad nauseam, and I'm here being taught several things. One of the key things I'm being taught is that if I manage well, I can stay sober. If I just she's teaching me that if I just treat my husband a particular way, I can stay sober. If I can just manage the boss a little better, I can stay sober. I can and this is what we're teaching these guys because we're taking slowly, but surely we're taking the book out of the picture.

This is not I'm not going to paint this with too broad a brush. There are groups that are effectively treating alcoholism using the big book in those discussion meetings, but they're getting fewer and fewer and far between. It gets to be where you guys know the drill. Some of you guys sobered up in groups where that was the where we could get sober like that and do a good job and then it got sick and that what we're trying to do in a in a hopefully, is stop the downward slide of those meetings that seem to have gotten off track. Again, the rooms are full with people that love us to death and want the very best for us.

But I can assure you guys, I'm standing here at almost 19 years sober and I'm telling you right now, I have seen the decimation of the non stop open discussion meeting with no holds barred where you're free to talk about anything you want to do. Where we turn these meetings into junior therapy sessions and they are not. And we must. If you want to turn them into that kind of a meeting, at least have something to bring to the meeting that's out of the book that's guaranteed. They talk about the book being a guaranteed solution to what ails us, then why is it that we want to hold the book at such distance?

Why is it that we want to be so vague about it? It's like the steps have become the steps and especially sponsorship have become this real this real fuzzy, vague, nebulous kind of thing, and we all say, oh, yeah. I know about sponsorship. Well, do you? Well, let's talk about it.

Tell me what you know about sponsorship. Well, you know it's, what? Yeah. Yeah. We're back to fuzzy then.

We don't wanna be we don't see, all we're trying to do is kinda knock some of the fuzzy edges off of it so we get sharp delineations of what the directions told us we would do. Some of us get real grindy about that. I don't want anybody telling me what I gotta do. Super. You don't you don't have to do any of it.

You don't. But if you're floundering and if you're having a tough time, if you come in, it means I gotta start over. I don't mind sorting over. Anywhere. That's the Spit Zone.

That's my favorite place to do. Golly. You'll know why they call it the spit gun in a minute. Keep backing. Everybody that knows this, you ever watch ever watch anywhere that I've ever talked like this, they always start in the back and fill in this way.

And when there's no place else to sit, these poor bastards on the front come in and down and go, oh, shit. Here it is again. And I'll be gleaking them like this and they'll be doing this and everything like this and it's just horrible. Oh, man. So the whole purpose of this thing then would be as we as we work through this deal, is to interact with you guys and hopefully answer some questions and kinda get through this deal based on based on our experience, my 7 years in middle of the road solution getting beat up and just busted up in the rooms.

Trust me, the worst I ever was was 7 years sober sitting in these rooms. It was a nasty experience. I know it may not be your experience, but that was my experience, and it was ugly. And I see so many so much of it today. And people wanna stand back and they wanna cross their arms and go, it's just as good today as it ever was.

And I'm going, guys, let me tell you what. If statistically you can show me where that's true, I'll shut up and sit down and I'll never ever stand in front of a podium again. Ever. Statistically, it's not okay and we're not getting healthier and the fellowship as a whole is shrinking in number because we're not doing the things that we were supposed to do. And my experience over the last 13 years with a bunch of big book guys doing a lot of this is that I see that when we get back in the book, it's a simple process, a simple shift in our perception and attitude about what we're going to do.

And the moment I say, you know what? Maybe it's a good idea to just look back at my program again. Just take one look at it and what we'll do is is we'll sift what I know about Alcoholics Anonymous in my program through what the big book tells me. It's a simple process. And by sifting it through there, we begin to say, okay.

I'm here. I'm okay. I'm here. I'm okay. I'm here.

I'm back fuzzy again. I'm not sure where I am on that. I don't understand for sure what I feel about this thing. Now listen. The reason that this is so important because at some point in time, this guy right here, David's gonna walk up to me and say, hey, Myers, can can will you help me?

Can you sponsor me? And, buddy, every area in your program that's fuzzy, you're gonna be going, oh. And the degree of that fuzziness is directly correlated to your anxiety about sponsoring this guy. If I'm fuzzy about sponsorship, if I'm fuzzy about my responsibility to the new guy, trust me. When he says, would you sponsor me?

If I'm not sure what I do is I hand him the book and I say, David, what I want you to do is I wanna read I want you to read. Well, read the whole damn thing and read and then read Bill's story and the rest of these stories, and here's another couple of books. And then in the spring I hope to see you in a meeting and we'll talk about it. Because the reality is I hope David dies. I hope David goes away.

I hope David does anything except come back and see me about sponsorship because really I'm talking I'm talking I can stand in my meeting and say, I I know all about sponsored shit. I've been doing it a while. But deep dark in the in the darkest part of the night when when you're laying in your bunk and you're looking at the ceiling and you're asking yourself the questions, do I really understand what it's gonna take to get this guy through the work? Do I am I clear on what my responsibility is to him? The reality is that in the big picture is that most of the time we bite off way too much way too much as sponsors.

Nowhere in the book did it say I had to be David's friend. Nowhere in the book did it say I had to I had to love David, invite David to to Thanksgiving dinner, and and take I didn't have to do all of this stuff. My responsibility is to carry David through the work. As quickly and as concisely as I can, get David in this stuff so that he could have something called a spiritual experience. And once he begins to have that spiritual experience, it's like raising little kids.

It's like they're just, David's just bouncing off the wall and he's having such a screwed up time with everything, and I'm having to hold that big son of a bitch real tight just to keep him out of trouble. I hope I like this guy because he's gonna kick my butt later. He's dead in your eye. I was doing a talk one time and then we went through the same thing, and I just picked the name out of the crowd of the guy that I had seen on his tag like this. And afterwards, he comes up and says, don't do that anymore.

And I said, what? What? He said, don't make me the butt of every one of your jokes. And I said, sir, forgive me. I had no idea.

But talking about taking the wind out of your sails, I was just like going, my god. Sensitive. Sensitive. We're holding David real close because he's an infant. He's brand new in this deal.

He's gonna make mistakes. We gotta hold him up, and it's exactly like raising the kid. He walks this way, and we're going just like this, and we're catching him. He walks this way, and we're he's talking to that girl. No.

No. Not the girl. But don't but don't we do just that? That's it. And so but after a while, he's worked the work.

He's had the experience, and he walks in, and you see him when he walks in the room. You watch his face and and and he's walking in here going. You guys know exactly what I'm talking about. You guys have carried guys through this stuff like this and he's a different man. And he's standing a little taller and he's a little more sure of himself.

He's a little more confident and as he walks into the room like this you go, yeah. That's one of my guys out there. I did that. No. But the deal is, though, and but but as he gets healthier, what do we do?

We quit holding him so close. We back up like this, and we let him go. And we just let him walk. And it's just like raising a kid, man. By the time you get a kid to high school, he better be pretty good ready to to stand on his own two feet and start making decisions like an adult.

If he's not, if he's still making, decisions like an 8th grader, you may have to do some shoring up. You may have to step back in close again and see what you can do to do some damage control around that deal. And we'll talk about some of that stuff this morning, But there is the goal. There is the deal. And all I'm asking on this stuff is that, is that you'd be willing to look at this thing.

I I gotta tell you 15 second little story here. It's one little side road, but it clears up the stuff that I'm talking about. When I when I almost died in the home group that I sobered up in, I mean, literally, guys, I'm I'm absolutely the crazy I'm crazier than crap house rat, and I'm just sick. Oh my gosh. 7 years from my last drink and my last outside issue.

I mean, it's just I'm nuts. And, and so I get over with these big book dumpers and they scoop me up and they get me back through the work and they get me on the firing line doing the things that I'm supposed to do, carrying messages and doing this other stuff, and it's a completely different deal. But let me tell you something guys, there's a part of me steeped in something called ego and arrogance that insists that I tell these guys how brilliant I am about how I call it synonymous. Now nothing I've done for 7 years has worked much. I mean, I'm I'm I'm I'm a meeting makers make it kinda guy, and I'm staying sober because I'm going to a whole bunch of meetings.

And that's about the extent of it. I'm no more qualified at 7 years sober to sponsor somebody than I was the day I walked into Alcoholics Anonymous. I've not made any forward progress in that area. And yet I am so I'm so I just gotta tell these guys how smart I am. I'm looking at one thing.

I haven't taken a drink since January 15, 1988. I'm trying to tell these guys because I've been sober 7 years, I have something to share. And maybe you do. Most of you do. But I'm telling you, it's possible to to to extend way downrange in Alcoholics Anonymous, go to a whole bunch of meetings, and still be lacking the basic knowledge of what the big book has to say about the steps and about God and about getting this thing called a spiritual awakening.

And it's only within ourselves in that deep dark part of the night that we can answer those questions. And so if if the stuff that we talk about becomes like pulling teeth, I apologize. It is not our intent in any form or fashion to make anybody feel uncomfortable at all. And I can promise you this, if what you're doing is working for you, God bless you, and I'm so delighted you're here. It's not my intention to ever change your course.

With that said, I want you to understand that my heart and soul bleeds for the newcomer that comes into this deal. I'm delighted we're all here. But my heart bleeds for the guy that's still sitting out there on that park bench suffering in the cold this morning because he was up all night doing those other outside issues or drinking himself silly. You see? That's the man that when he comes in here finally, when we finally get his little scrawny stinking butt in here, that we can love him and hug him and introduce him to something called fellowship that he may have missed his whole entire life.

But then I want to make damn sure that there's a whole bunch of us here that know the common solution and can gather this little guy up and get him to God. I don't want him coming in here and hearing him about how crappy your day was and him sitting there scratching his head going, what does your day have to do with the fact that I can't stay sober? You see? That's what we need to stop. There was a great place to share that and it was called a sponsor and we need to embrace that sponsor.

When my guys call me and they wanna tell me how crappy their day are day is, that's what I signed on to do, is to listen to that. And if I can listen to that, he doesn't have to share it in a goofy meeting. He doesn't have to take up 40 guys valuable recovery time talking about that kind of stuff. And if that's too rigid for you, I'm sorry. But we need to sort of get back that direction with this thing so we can see.

One more thing and then I'm done. One of the things that we're gonna talk about over and over again is this contrast between where we are today and where we wanna be over here. And one of the coolest things is people go, well, I'm fine right where I am. Well, have you experienced 12 step work with a whole bunch of guys? Have you sponsored a whole bunch of men?

Have you been involved in this thing called the firing line? Well, no. Well, then how can you tell me that you're okay and comfortable at where you are? You're missing the whole thing. It's like it's like this this stuff we talk about about sex.

I mean, I, we can all talk about it all we want to, but, buddy, until you've had sex, you ain't got a clue what it's like. But I but I but I see guys in, Wednesday night, I was talking to a bunch of guys up in debt, and we're talking about this stuff, and these guys are going, well, we're just real comfortable here. It's just a fine thing. We just fellowship and then and they're just going on and on and on. And I started asking this question.

Tell me what you guys are doing around 12 step work. You guys got any any group type gigs where you're going out to carry the message to wind up joints and treat the places, and it's just like the sea of black faces. They're just like, no? Well, what about sponsorship? How strong is sponsorship in this group?

Is tell me what you guys are doing. Well Some of us sponsor, but most of us don't. Oh. Oh, okay. But we're okay.

We're having fun. Oh, you can see all the little tables, the domino tables, and all this other stuff. They they are having fun. The fellowship's great. I'll never knock that.

It's a huge part of this deal. It's part of our unity, and it's it's important. You see? But it kills me that they haven't experienced what they what they need to experience. Because once they experience it, and everybody in here we took a strong poll.

Everybody in here who has stepped out onto the firing line and made the decision to get uncomfortable in their own skin long enough to get out and greet somebody, shake somebody's hand, and get somebody involved in 12 step work, sponsor somebody. Anybody that's willing to get on that fire line knows how quickly their life changed, how everything began to come about full face, and how everything began to alter, you see. And all all we're trying to do and when we do this kind of stuff is get even more of you off the fence, quit sitting there in that place that we get. I know. I'm not talking from some spiritual mountain top here, God.

I understand what it's like to be there. I'm okay. I'm fine. God. As my life is wheels off and just slowly unraveling.

Yeah. I understand. But if all of you come with us, it'll be the better thing. Stop and think what a cool impact we could have on everybody out there if we were just all doing the same thing from the same book, from the same piece of literature, it'd be great. That's all I got.

Chris, go ahead. Thanks, Bob. Thanks, Bob. So rigid. My name is Chris Raymond.

I'm a grape, cold, recovered alcoholic. Chris Raymond. If I if I don't do anything really goofy this weekend, Monday, I'll have 19 years and I don't It's not the it's not the big one though. 20 is the big one. That's that's when you're gonna start drinking again.

It's, you know, when I got here forever, they they, they told me, honesty, open mindedness, willingness would get you a long way. And it's still we were laughing the other day with some guys about it. It's it's still amazing to me how the longer we're sober, some of us, myself included, how we can quickly lose some of that. We we cease to be open minded. That's exactly what Myers was talking about.

You know, I I hear it, Both of us get a chance to speak out pretty often, and, very seldom do we get to do a cool little deal like this. I know so many of y'all are in this room, and and I it's just it's overwhelming truly to to see you guys. So a lot of you, I don't know and and, haven't had a chance to meet you yet. Probably won't either, but you'll be running out of here. Look.

But I wanna make make sure that we we hear a lot out there in the public when we're speaking is is that, how can I put this? Well, my sponsor said this, so this is the way it is. Well, my counselor at treatment said this, so this is the way it is. And this is why we have a a grind here in this room. It's because where we're trying to come from is not up so much a place of just opinion.

It's about what does our literature say? What does what does the big book say? What does the our subsequent AA conference group stuff say? What's what's what's the archive say? What does our history show works best for us?

And so we I think we all need to kinda come at this with an open mind so that we can have a new experience with this. I I I sponsor a lot of guys now. Do I think that I could become a better sponsor? I damn straight. Every time I sponsor another little goofy one, I I I learn something.

I I will continue to grow hopefully in my effectiveness with with the newcomer and with my group. I've got, I you never get to a spot where you stop learning, but sometimes the length of sobriety that you have is the noose around your effing neck. That's that's where I watched the Myers at 7 years sober be pretty close minded to making any changes because I'm staying sober one long arduous day at a time. You know? There's another way, you know.

I used to read those passages in the big book talking about we insist on being happy, joyous, and free, and it's just verbiage. You it especially if you're not happy, joyous, and free. You you'll follow? But the truth is today, I am happy, joyous, and free. I got a a pretty cool life, and and I think it's as a result of some of the work I've done in these 12 steps.

So I I I wanna make sure that before we get started in this all day long today, I don't know when we're gonna finish up, guys. We might we might be done by 3, and we may go over depending on how many questions you guys got. We got some information that we absolutely wanna make sure we get to cover. But but, we're not we're not here as buddies, you're free to agree or disagree with anything we say. I don't want anybody to leave this room, locked, John.

Well, if they can't talk to us that way, sure we can. We get excited about this. I know some of you don't get excited about this, but but we it it just exactly what I was just saying. You get on the firing line. You get in the trench with us and help us start we're sponsoring people.

I guarantee you, you're you will get so excited about this it's not even funny, and I almost missed it. I y'all most of y'all in here have heard my story, and I I won't reiterate it. But it's 7 years in and out of Alcoholic Economics. He was he came to AA and loved it. I came to AA in the early eighties and I just hated it.

I just I just I would just leave and I would go sit in my truck, you know, pick up my quart of beer and drink, you know, like, just like, what what was that that I just said it? I got all these war stories and I can't relate to any of those war stories. I'm a functioning alcoholic. I'm I'm I'm I'm broke. I owe everyone.

The depression's kicking my ass. I'm taking handfuls of pills to to keep stable. You'll follow me. I'm living with a woman that that does not want to be with me, and I and I I I am working in a kitchen, and I I hate cooking, and I I just hate this. I just go down with it.

And I walk in here, and you you listen to me. You talk about your goddamn beat up your eyes, and you're chopping people up, putting them in bags, and all of a sudden, you're buddy, I know I'm screwed up. I mean, I'm a mess, but, I mean, you guys are are, you know, vet, but, I mean, you guys are are you know, I am just not like you. And and I still watch that crap going on today. I hated it.

And when we weren't doing that, we were doing your our little our favorite topic, you know. It's who's got the problem? Let's fix you. Let's play junior therapists and listen to people that that can't even take care of their own shit, trying to fix my shit, and it's just like, what what are we talking about here? That was my representation of what Alcoholics Anonymous was when I came into the rooms.

There was not a big book in the room. No no literature. The steps were on the wall. We read how it works, and that's the last we heard about the 12 steps. That's my experience, guys.

I watch a lot of you nodding your head, and a lot of you are still experiencing the same thing. And I'm gonna say the same thing that my brother said. I'm not knocking that if that's what you wanna do, rock and roll. I'm saying there's something else out there. Cult, Alcoholics Anonymous.

Because those meetings are not alcoholic and honest. There's the fellowship, and there's the program. And somewhere along the lines, we walk right over the program. We could do it. Lots of us sitting here.

I know lots of you have friends of mine for years and we've talked about endlessly over coffee about what happened now, all the phenomena. What Myers said, and I'm gonna hit a little a little bit, the the success rates in our fellowship are through the toilet. Now I'll argue with anybody you want about this, guys. There's nothing scientific about it. Alcoholics Anonymous doesn't keep scientific statistics on this.

We use chip sales as an indicator of how many people. I watch the guys that I sponsor, the people in my group, how many go back out, come back in, and go back out, come back in. I mean, guys, it's a revolving door. The guys in the early days of Alcoholics Anonymous didn't seem to have that much problem. 1, is because they didn't mess with people that weren't ready for this.

We we spend an inordinate amount of time trying to talk people into getting sober, and that's not what our book tells us to do. On page 90, it says quite clearly, if the guy ain't ready, leave him the fuck alone. You know what it means by leave him alone? That means Buddy is not busy with you, and leave the room. Don't sit there and try to talk to somebody again and again.

If you're not done, you're not done. That is so rigid for some people. But what if they leave and die? Here's the other side of that. The time that you're wasting with this person trying to talk him into getting sober, there are people gonna die.

People that that want to get sober, need to get sober, and are ready to get sober. But you're not gonna have time to sponsor or work with them because you're too busy trying to spend all your time with somebody that that cannot make a decision. Make sense, guys? 7 years playing that game, in and out, in and out, in and out. Never had a sponsor.

Never bought a big book. Never worked one single step. And the best that cats can do for me is to tell me to keep coming back. Meeting makers make it. Proof positive that meeting makers don't make it.

Proof positive that meeting makers gradually go insane and drink against. That's my experience. Not knocking meetings at all. But alcoholism is not treated by a meeting. Show me anywhere in our literature that it says that it will.

We gotta stop telling the newcomer if that's the best we can do. I'm not saying don't tell them to keep coming back. Tell them to keep coming back. But while you're at it, let's work the steps. What a concept.

But that takes a little effort on our part. Makes sense? That's the grinder with me and just keep coming back. It works if you work it. It drives me nuts.

It's just like my sponsor says, I smell more. You know, it's it's a little deeper than that. The book says a price has gotta be paid. Price is is is the destruction of selfishness and self centeredness. I can't keep coming into a meeting and just listening, hoping somebody will say something and that it will change my life.

It's me that I gotta get off my butt and actually do some work, and that's what we're gonna talk about today. How do you take a new guy through the work? Quickly? Archives are full of documentation, folks, about how quickly worked the newcomer through the steps in the early days of alcoholics anonymous. Just Carl Jung got Eddie Thatcher, took him to his house, and worked him through the steps in 2 weeks.

This is before the big book was even published. Eddie, sober, a few weeks, went and found Bill Wilson. Bill Wilson goes back to treatment for his 3rd time. Left AMA the first two times out of his detox hospital. Went back the 3rd time and committed to stay the whole the whole time.

On his 9th day in Towns Hospital, while he's working making his amends from the hospital, he has his barn burning spiritual experience. Everybody thinks Bill Wilson had his barn burning spiritual experience and then he went out and started that I'll I'll sign up. Then he then he went out. That's not the way it was. He did the work first, then the rest came.

You'll follow? They went and found doctor Bob. Couple weeks later, doctor Bob relapses falls under that because he refuses to make his amend. Makes his amend. Gets sober, but I'm fine.

The rest is history. Bill d, number 3, a lawyer. Sober, 2 weeks. Works the steps. Worked that great.

It took them 18 what was the statistic? 18 months to finally get 10 sober people. You with it? They weren't messing with the cats that didn't want it. They were messing with the with the with the hardliners.

Every one of them work the steps rapidly. And yet we still have people in our fellowship still have people in our fellowship telling us to take our time to work the steps. It takes my breath away to think about that. How many millions of us died? Millions of us died.

Right after the point, 1935, we got this message and started utilizing it in our lives and found an absolute guaranteed way to sobriety. But we're gonna tell the new covenant, you're not ready to work these steps in. Oh, jeez. I work at a treatment center. A lot of y'all know that.

And, I hope I die there. I I I love spending time with you guys. And, maybe one day I'll win the lottery. I'll never give you money, but it's it's such a hoot to get a chance to do that. But I sit in that hospital, and I and I and I watch you guys struggle with this because you've heard so many people tell you, take your time.

All the middle of the road crap that we hear in our meetings, and you guys take bring this into treatment and try to meld it with all the therapeutic stuff that you get to hear, and nothing wrong with that. First three chapters of that book are great, folks. It talks about post acute withdrawal. It talks about the physical stuff. Wonderful.

The rest of it is will kill you. That's just a fact. In 1987, working for for Myers and, thank god for family. I know. I wasn't I wasn't exactly what you call your 8th employee, but I was doing the best I could with major brain damage.

I was fed to a hangover. But, I was work working for Myers and and tried to commit suicide, and I was just freaking miserable. I just hated my life, and the drinking was just it was just nuts and none. Who I believe some spiritual direction ended up back in Apot Znaments the next day. And I laid it back in the room.

I've never been to this meeting before. I walked in the back and they were all carrying big books. Y'all heard me before. And they they there was something about this bunch. They were all laddered up and they they they were interested in me.

It wasn't welcome. We'll see you later. It was they they showed some attention and they showed me what to do. And in a very short period of time, I'm working the steps, and I have a spiritual experience and the obsession lifted, and I've never returned since. And that's where I want you cats to be.

Makes sense? I have a progressive fatal illness called alcoholism and drug addiction. It's genetic. It's genetic. Alcoholism is not a behavioral problem.

There is nothing nor ever has been a case study that showed there was ever one single solitary person that suffered from the disease of alcoholism and drug addiction that was caused by something external. Nothing. No. That's good shit. Alright.

7 years ago, you could have argued that with the advent of the CAT scans and the MRI's and the the advances they've made in that technology, you can absolutely see the difference in our brains compared to normal people's brains. We are not like other people. And I know that doesn't come as a surprise for most of y'all in here. But you take away the booze from Chris Ramer, I am still abnormal physically, mentally, spiritually. Guys, this is it.

It's progressive in nature. It will get worse, never better. You all follow? Don't misunderstand me. My external circumstances can absolutely exacerbate the problem and make it worse.

But there's a lot of people out there who had were in bad marriages and drank too much, got out of the marriage, and they're drinking, drugging, moderated, and they were okay again. But they wanna call themselves alcoholics. They're not. If you can stop giving sufficient reason, you ain't one of us. You all with us?

Most of y'all are nodding your head. You know in the books where it talks about that, page 24 specifically, guys. It talks about this thing called choice. Y'all hear me on First Step stuff. Do it all the time.

K. The these guys in 1987, that that night and then we finished it up the next morning, they qualified me. For the first time in 7 years in Alcoholics Anonymous, they stopped talking about their goddamn problems and their war stories and disqualified me to find out if I needed to be in these rooms or not. Are you an alcoholic? Are you a drug addict?

Are you both? There's there's a difference. They need to be addressed differently. You'll you'll follow? That was the greatest hits that the company could did that take a little time on their part?

Absolutely. They gladly did it. And that's the single number one mistake I think we make in our on in all the fellowships that I'm associated with. That's the single number one, mistake we make with a newcomer. We stop qualifying.

We assume that they're here. Welcome. Do we even know that they need to be here? That's why we have so many people crap out. I'd rather see you crap out in the first two days you're here than to than to watch you stay sober 6 months and leave and take a half a dozen with you.

Makes sense? It's not a social organization, folks. We're not here just to entertain you. We're a spiritual program of action, is what our book says. And this is why some of y'all leave this room feeling uncomfortable because it's there's some responsibility involved in getting sober and staying sober.

And a lot of people don't want to take that responsibility. I'm too young. I'm too old. I'm too sick. I'm black.

I'm gay. I've been molested. I I hear the excuses all the time. I have way too many other problems. Rubbish.

Absolute rubbish. Responsibility is what we gotta take. I've had a pretty cool life, guys, for 19 years. And even when things were going lousy, I was I was comfortable in my skin. And the obsession to drink didn't leave, didn't come back.

Details. Details. Details. I was just seeing if y'all were listening. Coming from, my perspective at the hospital at La Hacienda, staying sober a period of time and always staying as active as I could in in the fellowship.

But working at this hospital, you could see such a cross section of humanity come through that place. And you get to see a lot of cats that just don't wanna get sober. They're only there because they got a bullet head into their head. You know? As soon as the bullet goes away, they're they're back out doing their stuff.

But it's a it's an amazing thing to watch and see how many people were getting in that hospital now. It's exactly what Myers was talking about, who, 10 years ago, we never had anybody but newcomers come into that hospital. We're almost brand spanking new people. Today, I can go to that hospital and there'd probably be 20 people there that had 5 years or more of sobriety in law. That's a tragedy.

Tragedy. Over 50% of the groups that were in place in Dallas, Texas where I got sober, 50% of those groups are gone now because of failure to adhere to the traditions. Y'all think about that. Our numbers and not all to not only over the last 10 years have dwindled. Why?

God damn we need it worse now than we ever did. We're taking more shots. I might even get a soapbox this, but I might. I get upset because we take so many shots from people out there about our fellowship. Every time you turn around, there's another one.

Somebody sent an email last week about the about the orange papers. Do any of you guys wanna get feel uncomfortable? Go go read those. People taking shots at our fellowship. Books everywhere.

Alcoholism. Alcoholics Anonymous, Culture Cure. Guys, there's thousands of books out there. Thousands of books out there taking shots at our fellowship. Why?

Because we have gotten away from the clear simple message that we were given in 1935. You with me? Most of the things that they're taking shots at, they should take shots at because of mistakes that we're making in our own fellowship, because we refuse to adhere to the 12th Traditions. It's just it's just real simple. Why don't why why do so few of us get involved in the 12th Traditions?