Big Book Study on Steps 10 12 in Prescott, AZ

My name is Mark. I'm an alcoholic. All suffering comes from resistance to what is. How many of you are suffering or have suffered at various times with depression? Don't resist it.

Be as thankful for what God brings you is what God takes away. If you've never experienced depression, how would you know what joy is? Stop resisting that. Those kind of things come up, begin to seek some solutions. Doesn't always have to be medication.

Over the years, I've suffered tremendously from that. Diet, exercise, breathing, lack of resistance to what is, all of those things can help you with that. I wanna talk a little bit more, about some of the things, with 11 Step and then I'm gonna talk about working with others. I have an altar in my home, a sacred space in my home. That developed over a period of time.

On that altar, I have a lot of things that are just symbolic of the spiritual path that I'm on, things that have come into my life over periods of time. Some of my, my Christian practices, some of my Buddhist practices, some of my Native American, all that's on my altar. About 2 months ago, I got what's called the Zofu. It's a sitting cushion. I have found that when you set aside an area of your home for that, when you go into that area and begin your practices, it begins to take on a power and and begins to take on an energy.

So you might consider that. It has helped me tremendously. And that's where I'll go and I'll sit in the morning when I begin to do my practices or I sit in the, in the evening. Start seeking out some of these other things that are available to you. As I told you, there's fabulous things.

I'll never forget one time the group that Joe belonged to for years. The group that Joe belonged to for years. They're over seekers if there's such a thing. The answer is deep down within. The answer is deep down within.

The place And the place that we held this was a monastery called Mount Calvary, which is on a highest peak overlooking Santa Barbara. And at nighttime, you can literally see the whole coastline. It's just incredible. So I get there and, of course, if you've never been to visit a monastery, a monasteries do everything at a set time. They get up.

They do prayers. They'll do their meditation. They'll work. They'll eat. They'll and depending on the monastery, most I've been to, everything is so incredibly well maintained.

It's a demonstration of the spiritual law of order, for example. So these people have been going to this monastery for 7 years doing these retreats, trying to get closer to God. That's another paradox. And it's impossible to get closer to God. God's closer to breathing.

All you do is wake up to that which is already there. That which was separating you from that which is already there gets removed, I guess, is a way to say it. So they asked me up there to do this thing on 10 11. So Friday night, I basically started out and I said, you all been coming up here for 7 years and everything you need to know about 10 and 11, you could have experienced your very first time out up here without some guru teacher. It's all been right here right in front of your face and you don't even know it.

And they said, what are you talking about? And I said, well, have you noticed here for example and at this place, they observe grand silence, 10 o'clock at night till 7 in the morning. Drives drunks and addicts crazy. Grand silence. And the brothers there, I like them because if they catch you talking, you you you wouldn't think they were holy men for a while.

So they really make you stick to it. And so the drunks, of course, they'll wander down the road a quarter of a mile so they can yap yap yap yap. See, before there was sound, there was silence. And after the sound is gone, there's silence. Silence is our natural state.

Yet, it's the last place that my mind wants me to ever be like Joe says because it's uncomfortable. So back to that illustration of steps 1011, I said, well, much like our big book, I said at this monastery, they all get up at the same time. When I work with people, I get up at the same time Monday through through Friday. Every single morning, my alarm goes off the same time. Currently, that's 4:40 AM in the morning.

And I learned that at a monastery when they get up the same time. And the reason they do that is simple. They know that the weak is flesh. The flesh is weak. They know that we are slothful.

And so what happens when you get into a discipline of getting the same time every day of the week or a minimum of 5 days a week, you'll get up whether you want to or not. After a while, it just becomes a habit for you. And then they will do certain practices at the same time every day. Then they will eat at the same time. Then they will work.

Then they will meditate. Then they'll do prayer, then they'll have their lunches, and they'll come to the evening meal, and they'll do evening prayer and evening meditation. And I said to him, you all have been coming here for 7 years and you've missed completely what they've been trying to teach you in this place, We don't like that word. Today, I love that word. Discipline is the horse I ride.

So you might consider trying that, picking a set time every day and getting up at that set time. I find people who have some things I want, and I get close to them and I steal everything from them I can. I would encourage you to do the same. There was a man that that came out, to to There was a man that that came out, to to the first, session Joe and I did out here many years ago. He was 22 years sober then.

He heard a tape. Good member of AA. And he heard a tape that Joe and I and it moved him so much, he hopped a plane from Dallas and came out here. And I'm not sure. I think he calls me his sponsor.

When I look back, done so much work with the disciplines of 10, 11. And I suspect at times, he will come to me for spiritual guidance. I go to him for common sense and discipline. Some of you can relate to that. He's a next marine.

He gets up at 4 am, 7 days a week. He's 71 years old. He goes to a gym. He runs between 3 5 miles 5 days a week and lifts iron the other times. And he goes back home and from 5:30 to 6:30, he does prayer Helps a lot of people.

Has tremendous balance in his life. Those are the kind of people that I'm trying to find all the time. He's got some things I want. At 71 years old, I wanna be trucking 3 to 5 miles a day. You know, you've been married the same woman for 30, 31 years now.

I have no frame of reference for that one. Matter of fact, I don't read sex inventory to him because I've been married and divorced 4 times. He has no frame of reference for me. I need to read inventory to guys who've been married and divorced 4 times and don't do that anymore. See, I wanna tell you something and it's important for me.

Find people who've had an experience and that you want what they have and go find out what they do. But people who haven't had the experience cannot help you. So those are some of the things that I still continue to do with steps 1011. Last couple years, in terms of be quick to see religious people, right? I've been doing a bunch of work and practices with the book called the power now by Eckhart Toll and with the four agreements.

And when I get a book by the way, I'm not looking for knowledge. I'm educated way past my intelligence. I'm looking for practices that I can begin to work with that will show up in my life so I can give my books away. That it becomes a part of my life. And then you practice, Practice.

Practice over and over and over. You know, that thing we hate called repetition. So that's what that's some of the stuff that I do with the 10th and the 11th step. My life is exciting because there's no end to it. There's always places to go and things to learn.

But to do it along with and and not instead of. So let's talk about the 12 step and sponsorship for lack of a better word. That word is not used in the big book. It certainly alludes to a relationship between 2 people. This is what I currently do which is again, this has changed tremendously over the years.

I made every mistake in working with others you can make. Something to do with you. You get attached to it. You develop these dependencies, relationships. I've gone through all that kind of stuff.

But here's how it looks today. If a person comes to me today and says, will you sponsor me? I don't say yes. I tell them that I will consider that. And we normally do exactly what the big book says in working with others, is I will meet with them for the first time and I will try and find out all I can about them.

And I have them talk to me about their life, about their drinking life and or drug life, about their life in sobriety. What are they doing with 10, 11, and 12? This is assuming that they've done some work. Where are they with the men's? Do they have unfinished the men's?

I found out everything I can about them. And then I sit down and I go through the chapter working with others. And the reason I do that, there's about somewhere between 20, 22 instructions that are given to that new person or that person who wants to go back through the steps about their responsibility and what they have to do. Things like this. Do you want to quit for good?

Are you willing to go to any extreme to do that? Does it does the desire to find God dwell within you? Are you willing to place dependence ahead of God, ahead of dependence on other people? Are you prepared to go through with the 12 steps of the program of recovery? And I make them completely responsible for this path that we're gonna walk down.

I'm gonna walk alongside, but I'm not going to take any responsibility for the life of their sobriety. And I'm beginning to teach them right away that this is going to be about them and a relationship with God, and there won't be any dependency placed on me. When we get done with that, I make sure that they're very clear what willing to go to any link looks like. I believe we do a disservice to each other and to new people in this area because we ask them if they're willing to go to any length. They answer yes to a question, then they don't know what it looks like.

So I take time and I outline these 12 steps. And I talk about we're going to look take a hard look at this first step. Is this really you? You're going to want to find out that. Cause if you're a real alcoholic and don't have a vital spiritual experience, you're probably gonna die.

So I talk about the first step and I talk about the second and the third. And I tell them you're gonna write 3 inventories. You're gonna do a 5th step. And I talk about 6 and 7 and I talk about amends. That if you wanna do this way of life, you're gonna have to pay this money back and make these amends to these people.

Quite often, you get this response. Mark, I just want to get sober. This is a bit much, don't you think? You see, I'm not here to soft sell this thing. See?

Not here to soft sell it, but I'm not here to deceive somebody. I talk about the 10th and 11th step, and I talk about the 12th step. Then I normally would send them home and I'll say, I want you to think about this for a few days. And and if you're this is what you wanna do, then call me back and then they'll come back to my house. And now we're gonna start on the title page of the big book.

And we're gonna use a prayer. God set aside what I think I know for an open mind and new experience. And we're going to go through the book together, word by word, page by page. And when it gives us an instruction, we're going to do it. I have them do all the reading.

Guide me in terms of what I bring up and what questions I ask. I'm a busy man. I'm a busy man. Not going to call me every day. I work off a day planner.

I typically will meet with them once a week. I also learned this lesson the hard way. I very seldom will ever meet with a drunk for more than an hour and a half. Why? Because their energy is incredibly sick and toxic.

That's why. I normally burn sage before they come and I burn it after they go. I don't want that energy in my home. Listen. I spent years sitting down 6, 7, 8 hours with drunks.

They'd leave and I'd be sick 3 days and didn't know why. I was really asleep to some stuff. Or you sit and you do these 5th steps and you listen to them for 48 hours and wonder why you're crazy for a month. I didn't know. I was really asleep to a lot of stuff.

So we begin that journey through the steps. Constantly, I have to remind them that you agreed at the beginning to go to any lengths for victory over alcohol. I don't take a lot of time with it. We keep meeting in those sessions and we go through the process. There's points behind each step that unless they're in agreement, there's no sense going on.

For example, at the end of the first step, when you become aware of the fact of your need for power, you're gonna get open minded about God. If there's still resistance to God, there's no sense going on inventory, it depends on because I get a chance to work with people with many different lengths of sobriety, I think we have a tendency to sponsor people who are like us. So I sponsor 2 kinds of people. I get to sponsor people. A lot of them have long term sobriety dying of untreated alcoholism, which is exactly what happened to me.

There's another group who I get to sponsor who've been around a a 1, 2, 3, 4 years, done little or nothing in the way of work and they're real sick and I get to sponsor them. And there's a third group called chronic relapsers which is interesting because I have no relapse history. But I attract them. I've told you what I think that's about. I was a bad person in my last lifetime.

I talked to him about the experience, and the experience is more important than the explanation. One of the greatest things that can happen to an alcoholic through the steps is the experience is beyond their understanding, Because God is beyond understanding. I think that's a wonderful thing. So we continue to sit down and we go through the steps. Typically, when I will get the inventory, depending on their experience, will determine how I have them right inventory.

If they're brand new and completely sound asleep, I don't even begin to have them write the kind of inventory that Joe and I write today because they're incapable of doing that. So the inventory is much simpler. I will have them get clear on the second column. 3rd column, what does it affect? Sometimes I have to help them see their part in the 4th.

And I have them write a simplified fear inventory and a sex inventory. I put a time limit on inventories. I will not allow people to drag those out. Why? Because I've had the experience Joe talked about.

The actual time writing an inventory, as you all know from your own experience, probably like I don't know how he phrased it, but you take 6 months to write it, but the actual time is 3 days. And your experience is you're gonna live that inventory as you take that 6 months. So I've learned to put a time frame on inventory. If they get stuck and I'm gonna be working out of my house on a Saturday or something, I have them come over and sit in my house, weepray, and I have them right in my house. Because sometimes it's simple questions and they get stuck on.

And I get them through that. Why? Because they need power. Then we do the 5th step. If I if I get asked to work with people that have time in the program, I always have them do multiple 5th steps.

And if they've been sober a long time, they really bulk at that. I, I remember one woman, when she came to me, she had 32 years. She really bulked at multiple 5th steps. I said, I don't care about your bulking. You asked me to take you through the work.

I have some things that you don't have. You're gonna do what I say. Book says person to persons, right? So you can always use the book to get your way. She says yes.

So I found 1 woman who had about 2 years sobriety which really made her angry because she had this superiority. And then I had her do it with a man who had been sober for a long time, and then I had her do one with me. If they're new, I don't always have them do multiple 5th steps. It depends. If if they are completely ego bound, bound to their mind, I have found multiple 5th steps is a very freeing exercise.

So I will have them do that. Then I give them different exercises for 6 or 7. Over the years, I've learned learned discernment with each individual that sits across from me. Then, of course, we get to we get to amends. We make the list.

I like to still have them use cards, and we will sit down and talk about it. And anyone I take through the process anymore when we get to the 9th step, whenever they call me, I don't even say hello. I say, how many approaches have you made? How many amends? All they ever hear out of me is how many?

They don't hear you having a nice day. Nothing. How many amends have you made? The reason is I'm trying to keep in their consciousness what they're doing right now, which is making amends. Then I also have them read the pages in the book that describe the amends process every morning as they begin to practice the disciplines of 10, 11.

My goal is to get anyone that I'm working with free of me as quick as possible. I have several people who would use the term sponsor with me. Over the over the years. We just develop a relationship. They know my stuff as much as I know their stuff.

Got We're talking the other day about accountability. I have a tremendous amount of accountability in my life. I do a thing I call steal on steal. Proverbs 27 17. There was a quote, as iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

And off of those words, I got an idea. And the idea was to get 2, 3, 4 people to meet once a week or every other week, to take every area of her life including the disciplines of 10, 11, and 12, and and to set a timer and to report to the members sitting there how am I doing in that area. In the last week, this is how many morning prayers and meditation, how many evening reviews that I did. This is how many meetings I went to. This is where I'm at with my sponsor.

This is where the people I have sponsors at. This is am I having any trouble in relationships? How's my job going? How's my finances going? How's my physical health going?

If I owe any financial amends, am I making them? And do I have a plan? Do I keep my word? And then they shut the timer off, and then I pull out a notebook, and the people sitting there get to give me considerations. Because why?

Because I get into self delusion. I fall off the track. My mind says I'm doing well. I show up at steal and steal and I report and they let me know how crazy I am. I've been participating in steal and steal since 1994.

Of the many spiritual practices I've employed, it's one of the most beneficial that I've ever worked. There's been times And And you're sponsoring too many people. Stop. We're sitting down there, and we had to laugh about this when we first started doing Steel and Steel. They asked me the question, when's the last time you went in and had a physical?

I could not remember. I had great medical insurance and a free VA. I could have had it. This is how asleep I was. They said, we'd like you to consider that your physical health is a part of your spiritual life.

And why don't you go start getting physicals? That sounds like a great idea. See, that kind of stuff. They've helped me grow so much. It's just beyond belief.

The other thing that steal and steal did for me, I didn't realize was it allowed me to set aside the ego and allow people who love me to say to say things to me and not have me get offended by it. Keeps me on track. I mean, Joe can Joe can tell you that. He's having, I think, his first real experience with incredibly how valid steel and steel can be. I do steel and steel today.

2 little groups. I do one group is is a woman who's sober 39 years, Another woman sober 18 years of me. So the 3 of us meet every other weekend. I do steal and steal with 2 other people. One man is the man I I would use the term sponsor with.

Another man's only been sober about 2 years. So so 2 two times a month, I have 2 different groups of steal and steal where I'm accountable. I'm accountable to all my employees. I'm accountable to everyone I work with. I'm accountable to my own group.

Get up to the 12 step. I get a lot of people will ask me to do some work with them. My life is imbalanced today. I've learned to say no. I've done enough work with other people that I can say no, call so and so.

They'll be able to take you through the process. So again, my my role in in going through these steps is not to develop build dependencies, to be truthful, to be honest, to let them be accountable. I do some other things. I suppose at times people have a impression of me that I can be hard. I'm not as hard as the disease of alcoholism, I'll tell you.

I take a lot of phone calls and in my business life, I do that a lot. So I don't have a great love for the telephone. So I let anyone know that I sponsor, that if you call me, this is gonna be what is called a bulleted session. That if you're looking for someone to have long intimate dialogues with, you better get someone else because I'm not your guy. Particularly, these people that I get sometimes, you know, who like to talk all the time.

I have them get a timer when they call me. I have them set it on 6 minutes. They get 6 minutes. That's it. I'm trying to teach him something.

Steele and Steele did something else because initially when we started, we had 6 of us. You could only talk for 6 minutes. Pretty soon, I found out when I went to meetings of AA. I very I very seldom ever share for more than 5 minutes in the meeting of AA. Prior to steal and steal.

I've talked for as much as 20 minutes. I begin to learn disciplines and accountability in that process. So those are some of the things that I do when it comes to right now, I I'm currently it's 3 more than I wish, but I'm taking 7 people through the steps. So the way my schedule works out is about every other week. Sometimes, if I have a choice of being in the meeting of a or sitting across from somebody working out the big book, my preference is the big book.

I still attend a minimum of 3 meetings a week. I still submit to the process. I'm very, very accountable with people in my life. I I don't have any there's no secrets in my life. My life's my life's an open book.

I'm still seeking other disciplines along in the 11th step along with everything else that I'm doing. I am blessed beyond my wildest dream, ladies and gentlemen. My attachments have almost killed me. A And I said to him, did you love her? He said, yes.

I said, then if you love her, the only appropriate response would have been, god bless you. Go in peace. He said, well, that isn't what I was able to do. And I said, I understand that. I've been there because of these attachments you have.

Everything is on loan. Much as possible because that implies ownership. Every relationship I had, you're all alone to me for a period of time. I don't know how long it is. I'm not going to take it for granted.

I want you to know I love you, and I thank you for being in my life. The job I have, I don't know how long I'll have. But I don't attach to it. It doesn't define who I am. My sense of who I am arises from within, not out of here.

I get to wear the world like a loose garment, have fun in the one act play. I tell people when I go into work, CEO of a company, when I drive through the gate, I just grin and say, okay, God, it's a one act play. I get to play CEO for a few hours. How may I be the best one I can be? And I play that role.

Role I gotta play, God, in your one act. What a what a fabulous deal we got. This fellowship and this program called Alcoholics Anonymous and these incredible sacred things called the 12 steps can change and transform your life beyond your wildest dreams. My life truly isn't my own business anymore. And, I quit, I quit that.

I'm grateful for every breath that I take. Very grateful for the weekend that, you allowed me to to share with you all. And I love you all very much, and I hope our paths cross again. God bless you. There's another spiritual principle that our book alludes to.

And I'll ask it as, have you ever tried to care about somebody who doesn't care. Now you can fool yourself into thinking that you care. You can try and care. But I believe this, if they if that person doesn't care, you can't. I'm talking about just caring about wanting to live or die.

If you don't care, I can't. If you care, I can't not care. And that's the kind of spirit that you're brought to. Our book says if a man is not ready to accept what you have to offer, it's not easy. When the ego is involved, let him go.

You might even if you don't let him go, you might spoil a later chance for that person. I used to be the kind of sponsor that thought every single person that asked me to work with them, I was supposed to say yes. That's like thinking you never say no to an AA request. That philosophy destroys families and marriages and relationships with children. It precludes inspiration, intuition, prayer.

I bring that same thing to working with others. I'm not supposed to work with everyone that asked me. What am I supposed to believe? They're in their right mind? They've come to me because they're not in their right mind.

They're desperately searching for a new mind. I have a new mind. I'm supposed to use that. I asked God to show me. I do basically the same as Mark said.

And I also know that he does this too. When someone asked me and I I also think there's a lot more to sponsorship than just taking someone through the work. That's about all I know how to do. But in that, there is a lot. There's a lot of responsibility.

It's as much of a commitment for me as it is for the person who's asking. I don't take that lightly just to have numbers. I have an assignment. It's a simple assignment but it seems to weed out about half that ask. And if they can't I can't help somebody who's not in the grace of God.

And as a matter of fact, I've kind of quit trying to help other alcoholics because no human power can relieve what you suffer from when you come to me. I have found that there's basically 3 types of sponsors. Those that point you to yourself, just don't drink, do this, you can do this. I think Paul and I talked about it the other day. Some of those sponsors make a dangerous assumption when you come to them, that you're clear, you're alcoholic, just because you're here.

And to make that assumption cannot only be deadly for them, it can be deadly for me. Because, see, I need that connection, one alcoholic with another. And if I make that assumption, it can kill you. And if you make that assumption, it can kill you. I don't care if you're new, old, or in between.

I am never gonna make that assumption that you're clear or that I'm clear on anything. Three types of sponsors. 1 points you toward yourself. Just don't drink. Do this.

Do this. Why don't you just surrender? And they speak to you like those people in your family that used to just baffle you. Why don't you just outgrow it? What's wrong with you?

Why don't you just quit drinking? Then there's the kind of sponsor that points you to them as the answer. Call me every day. I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna do that for them.

I'm gonna do this for them. I keep my babies sober. Right? So they're either pointing you toward yourself or toward them. I've always had the kind of well, I've only had one sponsor and sobriety except the 1st 6 months.

And that was just out of fear. I picked somebody totally different than the guy that I went to 6 months later. I believe in sponsorship and I believe if you're a sponsor and you don't have a sponsor, you shouldn't be sponsoring people. I believe if you haven't had a spiritual awakening as a result of the steps, you shouldn't be sharing the steps with people. That's for me.

Now, I met too many sponsors that don't have a sponsor. What happened to the lineage? I believe in a lineage. I love what they do with their lineage gathering and they know their lineage. If your life's on the line, what if you ask some guy that everybody they've worked with has drank again?

How do you know? You gotta ask. Who's your sponsor? Who's his sponsor? I'm very happy to be a part of a lineage that requires responsibility and commitment and respect.

I've met a lot of people don't even know their sponsors. Who's your sponsor sponsor? I don't know. What's your sponsor's last name? I don't know where we were the other night.

But I asked somebody, who's your he said, I I just got a new sponsor. What's his name? You know, if your life's on the line, you better take it seriously. Right? My sponsor has 36 years.

He's gone from the Colorado State Penitentiary to working for the Department of Corrections for the state he was locked up in. Amazing man. He was made a pipe carrier for the for the Lakota nation. That's unheard of for a white guy. Amazing man.

He has what I want. He still has what I want. But you know what? He instilled in me something that has taken me to the point where you know what? I also want what I have for the first time in my life.

And I'm not a thief anymore. Well, sometimes. See, I thought I was a thief even though I had stolen stuff physically. But I saw even if I hadn't done that, I was basically a thief. I take a little from you.

I take a little from you. Little from this book. I take stuff from people I don't even like. Right? I'm a thief by nature.

For the first time in my life, I have some kind of healthy love for myself. I thought self centeredness meant you weren't supposed to care about yourself anymore. If there was an unhealthy self love, there would there couldn't be a healthy self love. So if there are sponsors that always point you to you being the solution or to them being the solution, be careful. I've always my sponsor has always pointed me to God didn't allow me to become dependent on him because he couldn't manage his own life.

He didn't allow me to become dependent on him for my sobriety because he couldn't keep himself sober. I haven't lived in the same town with my sponsor for 15 years. He lives in Denver. I lived in LA. Then I lived in India.

And we're close. And I'm accountable. And I talked to him. And we're peers. He said the sponsorship relationship has ended.

We're peers. We're friends. We can talk about whatever you want. I I then had a native American teacher. He didn't allow me to become dependent on him, and he connected me to the earth and to that which is around me.

Lot of work, proper use of the will. But I love that man. He spent 2 years with me. A lot of work, proper A lot of work. Proper use of the will.

Bringing a vision of God's will into all my activities. He shared native American practice with me to the point where I think it would be very disrespectful because of what the race that I come from has done to his people. It would be very disrespectful for me to share any of those practices with other people. I'm very leery of white people doing sweat lodges and teaching people how to do native American practice. It's just not something I could do.

I'm not against people practicing those things. We've already taken so much from them. You know, we should let them share what they have. We've stolen so much from so many other people. My next teacher was a Christian man who had lived with Thomas Merton for many years in a monastery at Gethsemane.

Doctor. Jim Finley, who's also a psychotherapist, He got me in touch with a part of myself that I hated. I hated feeling unless it was comfortable. That's the pattern of my disease. He taught me about contemplation.

He taught me the most important thing I've ever learned about therapy, and I've been a therapist. And that is that I'm not the one that has to heal this stuff. I'm not the healer. I'm the. And he always brought it back to God.

And I saw that therapy or anything, you, a movie, a book, not to look at them as answers, to look at them as a 4 step tool to continue to discover truth. You can find truth everywhere once you start to look for it. My god. I heard a song the other day and I finally heard the line the the words that they were saying. And it said, you take a stranger by the hand, a man who doesn't even understand his wildest dreams.

You walk across the dirt and mud and lead him to an ocean that he's never dreamed of. Came from a song. You too. Bono wrote it. I thought, wow.

That's what we do. A complete stranger. And the only way I know him is by knowing myself. And that with armed with certain facts about myself and the more I find out about myself, the more I know about him because we have a common disease. And hopefully, we're gonna share in a common solution.

My job is to find out if they want to take it in if they want to get involved in that course of action that has worked for me. That has worked for me, because I don't have any other course that will work for them. There's nothing I need to teach somebody that they don't already know. They just need to remember it once in a while. So I give them an assignment.

Read the first 164 pages and answer these 4 questions. Is this that you've just read what you want to do? Don Kois always taught me, at the very beginning, if you can involve the ego and to think that it has something to do with it, they'll have a much easier time. So I asked him, is this work what you want to do? And are you willing to go to these lengths to do this work?

And I asked him, why do you wanna do this work? And I asked him, why with me? Based on those answers, I make a decision. I'll give you an example. Woman comes to my house with 13 years.

She says my life I'm she says, I'm a mess. I I wanna do this work you were talking about the other day. I said, great. Gave her a little something to do. She gets up to go.

She seems absolutely a 100% willing. My intuition says, that's what you trust when you're working with others. My intuition says, ask her to sit back down and just tell you a little bit about what she does in her daily life besides like meetings and trying to help others. So I asked her. Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, I meet with my therapist 1 on 1.

On Tuesday Thursday, I meet with the group. On Friday, I do ACA. I have my journal working and, something something something. And I said, would you be willing to put that stuff aside until you finish your men's And then decide what you wanna come back to. She said, no.

And I remember the time the man asked me the 2 things I thought were so important, working with others and speaking. And he asked me, was I willing to put that stuff aside so I could have a new experience with it and see what I had turned it into? I had turned those things into what I do to keep myself sober rather than what we get to do to seek a deeper relationship with that which keeps us sober. And she said she wasn't willing to put that stuff aside. And I said, I'm sorry.

I can't help you. I can't work with you. This has taken many years to come to, but I cannot work with people on medication. I'm sorry. I believe it's a block.

Not it doesn't block god. It just hasn't worked for me. It hasn't been successful. I've yet to see anybody on medication, and I believe there are people that need medication. Absolutely.

I'm not a doctor. But I have not yet seen anybody on medication get through the 12 steps. We've seen miraculous healings. Maybe they need to be willing to get off it in the right medically supervised way but I just don't I just don't involve myself in that because I'm not a doctor. I'm not a specialist.

I'm not even a a counselor anymore. And I really can't help another alcoholic, but I can point them to that which already is. I don't want them dependent on me. I certainly don't want them to be incur encouraged to be dependent on themselves. And I can point them to God and share my experience and and be there and try to have some compassion.

I've I've developed a friendship and have been somewhat effective in in at least pointing them in the right direction with drug addicts. But I certainly would encourage a drug addict to find another drug addict so they have that common bond. Because that's what I think where it really happens. So at the beginning, you're exposed to these 3 legacies. You're probably involved in the fellowship, which is unity.

When done with step 0, you're gonna probably get involved in recovery, and you're gonna start to become of service. For a long time, I thought those three parts of the program were separate. You know, if I'm doing this now at this moment, I'm involved in recovery. And I forgot the promise of that circle is that one day, not only I could become whole, but those things could become whole. And I no longer see those things as separate because I've begun to become whole by the promise of that circle.

You better believe if I'm involved in the fellowship, it has to do with recovery and it has to do with service. I believe recovery has to do with unity and service and vice versa. They're all 1. They're not separate. I also don't see anything spiritual in my life as separate from our program because I don't see our program as a place or an Well, you'd say, well, resentment is not included in the spiritual life.

Sure It brings me back to God over and over and over. Thank God for those. Thank God for those things I used to hate. I used to think selfishness could only be selfish. It can also be unselfish.

There's negative and positive in both. I have used unselfishness to my own benefit in a very selfish way. Selfishness has proved very beneficial to bring me back to that which is there. You know, there's good and bad in both and I don't really see them as separate anymore. People always say, well, there is evil.

What about the devil? My God, who's brought more people to God? Look at the great trick they played on him. Right? Virtue resentment.

Thank God for resentment. Now, I don't like it when it hurts somebody else, but it certainly keeps me humble and brings me back to God over and over and over. I guess, if you've been around for a while and you're a 12 step practitioner, there's a couple questions you need to ask yourself. Have you really had an awakening as a result of the steps? Or have you just had a major awakening as the result of 1 through 8 and 3 quarters which would include some amends?