UMASS in Dartmouth, MA

Okay. Okay. Just a group. This is not a group meeting. Yep.

Yep. Mary had the meeting. Okay. Hi. Welcome, everybody.

My name is Danny. I'm a recovered alcoholic. Oh, Danny. Alcoholics Anonymous is a fellowship of men and women who share their experience, strength, and hope with each other that they may solve their common problem and help others to recover from alcoholism. The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking.

There are no dues or fees for AA membership. We are self supporting for our own contributions. AA is not allied with any sect denomination, politics, organization, or institution. Does not wish to engage in any controversy, either endorses nor opposes any causes. Our primary purpose is to Our primary purpose is to stay sober and help other alcoholics to achieve sobriety.

And, thank you for having me here. I, I didn't know what to expect. Could have been 2 or 3 people sitting together in a room or and and she didn't tell me anyway. So she didn't call me those sandwiches. That's for sure.

But, I'm eating my Italian sandwich. I think my, my usual disclaimer, I'm not an I'm not a a an AA historian or, or an expert on AA history or anything like that. Just a a drunk who took an interest in learning as much as I could about AA and where it came from, where it came from, therefore, where I come from. And, I identify with a lot of the people in our in background in history. So I always hated history when I was a kid and, frankly, I hate it now.

But, but it is AA AA, and it's important to me. It's one of my passions. And, so all any of you true AA archivists and historians out there, please cut me a little slack because I don't I don't talk about dates and, you know, 1935 and mother's day and all that stuff. Some of them I remember, some of them I some of some of them I really don't. And, she thinks I'm dyslexic, maybe it had something to do with it.

I don't know. But, because I came to parking field number 4 no. Parking field number 6 looking for room number 4. So and they looked at me like and there's all these big, you know, athletic guys walking around in the building there and, finally, they look too healthy. I knew that it didn't look like alcoholics to me, but, but you never know these days.

As you can tell by my accent, I'm not from around here. Or you might be able to tell. I'm from down south, New York City and, which is south of here. So I'm a southerner to you guys. I'm original, but I live up in Cape Cod now.

And, I get sober down there in New York. And as I said, this has become one of my passions because, what happened was I was in AA for a couple of years and, not really getting it. I was sober. And, at some point, aside from a lot of the other activities that, that some of you guys get involved with with trying to, trying to carry the message to people. Someone took me aside and and told me what I'm about to tell you.

And, he told me probably a lot better than I I do, but it made a real big impression on me. And it really impacted my sobriety in a in a phenomenal way. I was at a retreat a couple of years ago and, probably about 4 or 5 years ago and I met this fellow from Pennsylvania. And he he he didn't even have a year under his belt and he was having a rough time and, very nice guy. And we got the talking and he said, he said, I heard you talking about, Bill and Bob and and all that stuff in the hallway.

He says, so he says, what what what is all that stuff? I don't even know anything about it. He he admit he didn't even know the big boy. And, so I said, well, come on. I'll tell you.

So we went up into his room and, we spent about 2 hours together and I just from memory just told him what I knew about AA and and its beginnings. And a lot of us know that it started you know, a lot of us think I I thought it started when I got here to be honest with you. But, I was but there's 70 years before that or at that time, 60 some odd years before that that, that really if you know it, it can really have an impact on you. And I started telling this guy about about what I know. And he sat there and he said he said, that was amazing.

And the time just flew like that. I mean, we're sitting there in his room for, like, 2 hours. We missed lunch and all this stuff. And I ran into the guy a year later and he he said, he took me aside and then I said, you still sober? He said, yeah.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. And he said, you know, that, he says, I gotta tell you. One of the one of the most important things that's happened to me so far, this was that talk we had. And I said, really?

And he said, great. I said, you know that stuff's important to me too. And he said, no. I wanna tell you. He says, I think I had a spiritual awakening, that weekend.

And I think that part of it had to do with the story that we the things that we talked about. And I said, okay. Well, that's fine. And I was thinking about it. And, I started to make a habit or a practice of actually, when I sponsor people to sit down and go over this stuff.

And, I don't I don't use notes. I don't, you know, occasionally, I I refer to the big book, but I don't use notes and everything's out of my head. And the same experience, I I heard lots lots of people come back So, wow, that's just incredible, and and the time just flies. So I know you're all drinking a lot of coffee and eating food. I hope the time flies for you too.

We're not gonna finish it all. I mean, it's just so much of it. But, but is there any anybody here, anybody here that that that a historian of sorts? Ney? Knows the whole story?

A lot of people know a lot of stuff. You are. Aren't you? Because she thinks she's a historian. Okay.

Well, I don't even think I am. But, I'll start off with, I just wanted to get my background there and, a little bit. There's a couple of she said that there was, whiteboards and that actually, believe it or not, this thing is being reduced to slides, but I don't wanna get involved in all the audio visual stuff today And that would there are actually handouts that we give out that's just pictures and stuff of some of the some of the players, but, I didn't bring them because I because I forgot. But but if anybody wants them, I'll put out a a sheet and give me your email. I'll be happy to email them to you.

And I'm doing this actually a little bit differently than I ever have. I don't go right now. It's not a class, but I have to I might as well use it. And one of the where I decided to to talk about it was not so much from well, to start off from maybe a geographic standpoint, here we have because you can't believe that a lot of people think AA started in this country. It really didn't even start in this country if you follow it back far ago.

It really had has roots in a lot of different places. It has roots in in England. Can't see this. Don't worry about it. Because even if you could see it, you'll probably be able to read it anyway.

Down here we have, China. You didn't know that, China? Frank where's France relative? France is down here. France.

Where's Switzerland? Hello, France. Hello, France? I don't know how to spell Switzerland. It's a cheesy toilet.

And then we have, I guess that's an island and there's English Channel and there's all that stuff. And there's China down here. And then we have, the United States, of course. We have Cape Cod. That's my my history.

And then we have, we have Rhode Island. We have, we have, New York. Oh. Oh, Oh. Sorry about that.

We have. How do you spell New York? And why? Hawaii comes empty and not on top of the is that what it is? Okay.

Then we actually, New York City and we have, Alright? WC, World Champions. How's that? Awesome Red Sox. And then we have, we have the bronze.

All this comes into air, believe it or not. Take care of my job. Take care of my job. Nah. That's that would be a jinx.

Over here, we have Ohio. And that's about, that about handling. Anything I forgot, I'll just add in. Oh, yeah. We have opening That place is oh, and I forgot.

We have New Hampshire. Vermont. I don't know if that comes off. Right? No.

Oh, shoot. Yeah. It's supposed to come off. Water. Oh, well.

Go ahead and do that. Okay. We'll get I'll get in trouble. You can blame me. That'll come off.

I'll figure it out. I'll get some alcohol in there. Rubbing alcohol. Okay. So there's a there's a bunch of people involved here too and, I tell you one of the reasons I'm doing this is not so much for you but for me.

Because we have, everyone knows Bill w. Bill w is in there. We're gonna talk about him. We're gonna talk about Tubman, Eby Thatcher, Eb, we're gonna talk about Lois. B, Burn them.

We're gonna talk about, Bob. Is it Bob in here? Bob Smith. Bob Smith. Right?

Bob Smith. MD. We're gonna talk about, Roland Hazard and we're gonna talk about now this list is gets pretty long. I mean, there's no way I'm gonna really get into the the details on this. But, you know, one of the things that, one of the things that comes to mind I'm sick, you know, the name by the way, I don't know what he knows, but the name of this thing.

This is a foundation meeting and, the foundation is not so much in the foundation of the steps and traditions and that stuff, but the foundation in history and that's why we're talking about these historical figures And the whole idea is who invented AA? I mean, I thought it was I thought it was Bill w that invented AA. I thought maybe doctor Bob gave him a hand. But, you know, maybe at the end of this talk, maybe you might have a different idea. Roland Hazard, Henrietta, Zieberling.

Yeah. It's called Zieberling. We have William Silkworth. He was the, doctor? MD?

The little doctor who loved alkaloids? Carl Young. Carl Young. We have, William punks. It should say reverend William punks.

We have Sam Shoemaker. I don't even heard these names. I know. And one more I think of is missing which would be, Franklin. Buckland.

Alright. Think that's anybody else I can just add. Sorry about the writing. I'm not usually at the right that close. But, anyway, I'll mention as we go along.

Then I can cross it off and I know that I covered them. So a good place to start off really, I think is, is actually in England. Because in England actually, it even starts in Philadelphia if you think about it. I don't know what you have to write. But in England, there was a group called the Oxford.

There was some some of you have heard from the Oxford world. And in England, Oxford University, followed by the name of Frank Buckman, who actually started off in Philadelphia at a spirit what he calls he turns a spiritual awakening and he started he opened up a church down in Philadelphia and, he started a little congregation there and he wound up having a getting resentment against the this congregation. Okay? And once he got a he got such a bad resentment against this congregation. I think they were voting on something and it just didn't go his way.

Anybody ever had that experience? And he took a boat and whatever it was, I guess a group conscience boat down there. It didn't go his way so I got all pissed off and he left. As a matter of fact, he left he went so far. He went to he went to England.

And in his travels, he was in his travels, he ran he wound up in China and he wound up running into another guy by the name of Sam Schumacher. Schumacher. Is it Schumacher or Schumacher? Everybody says shoemaker. That was shoemaker.

That was in the early 1900, 1918, I believe. And he ran into he ran into Shoemaker. Shoemaker was a, parishioner at a church in New York City. The, Calvary, Presbyterian Church. And Frank Buckman wound up converting him to the Oxford group that he had developed up here, which had 6 tenants.

And these 6 tenants were does anyone anyone know them by heart? I don't even I'm not gonna look them up. But there's 6 tenants from where our steps come from. Refashioned restitution. There's a whole bunch of them.

And he actually took that idea back to this country and opened up started took started pushing that idea in New York. Alright. Setting that aside, the Oxford Group began to open up chapters in Akron. So the Oxford group comes over here at Akron and then in New York. So they had plus they had it.

But those were the only those weren't the only two places. They were actually all over the place. They were in South America, Switzerland, Egypt, France. They're really all over the place. And the way he did it was he went to the the reason why he got the name the Oxford group because I really didn't call themselves that.

They were the 1st, 1st century Christian group is what they call themselves. And he really did, but they were referred to kind of in a denigrating denigrating fashion as the Oxford group because it was really comprised of Oxford students, Oxford University students. And, you know, when you're young and impressionable, it's easy to get them to join your little at that time, they considered it a cult. I guess you still would consider it a cult. Okay.

Let's stop there with that. Then we go to let's start with rolling hazard. No. Let's start with, New Hampshire. Up in New Hampshire.

Has anyone ever heard of, Manchester? Somebody know where that is? Everybody ever anybody ever been there? It's a nice place. Right?

It's always been a nice place and it's always been sort of a resort community. A lot of wealthy people go up there. They have a, I think they have skiing up there probably. They have a big lake. They have equinoxes up there and, there's some hotels up there.

It's always been that kind of a community. Sort of like Cape Cod. They had some of people and they had winter people and the place would clear out in the winter time and then the summer people would come back in. A lot of them came from New York and they had summer homes up there. Well, some of the people that vacationed there in the summertime was tell you who they were right off the bat.

You had the Hazard family. You had the Thatcher family, you had the Burnham family with Lois. Who else have you got up there? That's it for this story. And Bill w who is from with the time was living in East Dorset, Vermont.

Anybody ever been up there to the house? To the Wilson House up there in East Dorset? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Next weekend. You're going up next weekend? Okay. Good. Good.

Well, he lived up there with his grandfather and, there's a whole story behind that too. But he enrolled in the ROTC program. And so he frequented the New Hampshire. He frequented Manchester a lot. Now he was a young kid then.

And I don't know what you did when you were a young kid. Well, actually, I do know what you did when you were a young kid. But you know what I did. I'm hanging out with other young kids and we drank. So all these people knew each other.

In fact, even Ebby used to travel with his family. Used to travel all the way from Albany to there. It's really not that far. It's not even I don't think it's even an hour drive. Maybe it's about an hour drive.

So they would all vacation up there. The first one really that comes into the story here and then of any real big significance is really the role in Hazard. I tell you that the Hazard family was very wealthy. The Hazard family had residents in, in, took residents in Rhode Island and also in New York and out in Long Island in New York. In fact, Rowan's father actually founded a town out in Long Island called Newtown on Long Island.

It was a very prominent family, and they had a lot of different businesses that they own, not just one business. They own they own the railroad. They own chemical companies. They were coke dealers. To oh, no.

Coke. You know, coal that's burnt. Okay. Not that kind of coke. Here on the back of his neck stood up and he said alright.

And they also owned the, Allied anybody ever heard of Allied Signal? Allied Signal is a big company. They started that. Anybody ever heard of, Arm and Hammer baking soda? Anybody ever use Arm and Hammer baking soda?

I mean, they're not. Has many uses. And they invented that. Well, they didn't invent that, but they took they bought that company and that lady became that good. Anyway, so they had a lot of money so that's why they could afford to be up there.

Roland, however, was a horrible drunk and, he was really the, he was really the scourge of the family. And his father being very, very wealthy sent him all over the place to try and dry him out. There's always been there's always been places, hospitals, and asylums, and sanitariums, and places to go for for this kind of thing. I mean, you know, we didn't invent rehabs in the century. There were people there's a lot of quackery back then too.

They have all these all these cures they call them for alcohol. So they give you enemas and they, you know, put put your head in radio boxes and plug it in and they had all kinds of stuff that you tried that. Right? I believe it. Well, it's none of that stuff worked.

Finally, at the end of his rope, the father picks up the phone. And you know, when you're rich and powerful, you can do things like this. You pick up the phone, you say no. You don't pick up the phone. You yell next door and you say, Betty Lou, get me Sigmund Freud.

Sigmund Freud was busy. Couldn't see him. He's probably busy snorting cold. But, but he was able to get one of one of, Sigmund Freud's, proteges who was Carl Jung. And Carl Jung, I mean, Jungian and, and Freudian psychology is is very is still is still revered today by the by the professions.

You know, they've changed it quite a bit, but, it really developed what we know today for counseling, therapy, and psychiatry psychiatry? Psych psychiatry. Therapy and psychiatry psychiatry psychiatry. He sends him over to from Rhode Island, he sends him over to Switzerland and that's where Carl Jung is. Carl Jung is very successful.

He's an author, world renowned and he owns a he's got a his own hospital out there in, Zurich. Roland goes there and spends an entire year with Carl Young on the therapy. Now can you imagine, you know, some of you have been in, some of you, I'm sure, have had counseling and whatnot in various, centers you know, you go in there for, you know, a few days or some of you might have been on the 28 day plans of the past. And, you know, you get all unblocked and figure out why you drank. Well, that's what he did.

He went there and he figured out why he drank. I mean, that's the best. Carl Jung, can you imagine? Spend an entire year with Carl Jung. Very expensive proposition.

I don't know the exact amount, but I seem to remember somewhere is like $10,000. Now with that time, $10,000 for a year of to spend a year rehab for 10 thou they get that like like a week now? Like, $10 a week now. It's about like 30, $40,000 for per month. Right?

And and you have to pay for it yourself now. Well, he paid for it. He gets all fixed up. He hasn't had a drink in a year. He knows everything.

He knows why he faces a certain way on his toilet. He knows how long his mother breast fed him. He knows everything about his about his psyche. He also knows another thing. He's definitely not gonna drink again because he has absolutely no to drink.

To get something at that time, you know, there wasn't planes around. So he had to get from Zurich. I think Zurich's down. I think France is down here from oh, anyway. He has to get from Switzerland to France.

He's gotta get there by rail and then he's gotta take a steamship across the country. It's a long trip. I guess, this trip was pretty long too because by the time he got to France, he also picked up a drink. I mean, he didn't even make it back to the United States. He had to spend an entire year with one of the most prominent, therapists of his time.

He didn't know what happened. He went back home and the family was devastated. I mean, they were absolutely devastated. They thought for sure they had done the right thing for this guy this time. And, and he arrived drunk.

A year later, he goes back to Young and he want his money back. No. He didn't want his money back. He didn't need it, but he figured he would help him out again. And, he said, what what happened?

And Carl Jung looked at me. He said, you know, he said, we've run into alcohol we've run into people like you and, I have to tell you, you are the type of alcoholic for whom there is no hope. There's just nothing for you. You're gonna die an alcoholic death. And, this was not good news for for young Roland.

And, he said, well, are there is there any exception to this at all? Any exception? And Carl Jung was a very unusual man even for that time in that he had a certain you read some of his stuff. I read very little myself, but from what I have read, you could tell the guy had a spirituality about him. He really did.

He believed in a god and he's he wrote about it. He told Roland, he said, well, once in a while, hardly ever occasionally, we do see somebody as hopeless as you actually make it out, but not very often. I said, well, well, how does that happen? So what happens to these people is they get they have some kind of a transformation. They have a a spiritual transformation.

They never drink again. So Roland goes, great. Never drink again. So Roland goes, great. He's only stop going to church.

That's my answer. I'll start going to church and no one says, no. No. He goes, that's fantastic that you're you're a church goer. That's very admirable.

But, I'm not talking about going to church. I'm talking talking about a change of a real change, a deep down spiritual change. My suggestion to you, Roland, is go find yourself a real hard club bunch of religious people and try to see if you can get that transformation from them. This was not terribly good news, but at least there was a little bit of hope for all. And he goes back back to the United States and he tells daddy and daddy says, if that's what he says to do, that's what we're gonna do.

So daddy picks up the phone, buys him a religion. Not exactly those terms. But what happened was the he assembled the group of the Oxfords at their summer home, DC. He set up a commune is what he did. He set up a commune up in New Hampshire.

And he set it up there and he sent him up there because you stay with those people and see what happens. And he goes up there and he's he's up there for months. He's not drinking. So far, it's working. Whatever they had, those 6 tenants that they were following, so far, it's working.

Alright. So we're gonna we talked about Rome. Now I'm gonna start talking about let me go that talking about Eddie? Eddie is fun. Eddie Eddie is in Albany.

His pant the thatchers were also very prominent family. His relatives were mayors of the town and they have a statue there erected in his in the family in the Thatcher family name now and all this stuff. They were also very wealthy. They owned a, an accounting business, and they and they were connected in the business community there. Abby is also drinking up a storm in Albany.

In fact, it's it's quite embarrassing for the Thatcher family, big prominent family. I said, Abby, you gotta do one thing. What? Get out of here. Go.

Goodbye. Leave New York. We can't we can't have you here anymore. You're embarrassing your family. So, where's he gonna go?

Of course, he goes to Albany. He gets in the car and he drives up the man mansions. Mansions. To the to the to the, to the summer residence. He does a geographic as we say.

Right? He's gonna change his life now. He's not gonna drink. He's gonna dry out. He's gonna get his get his life in order.

So he goes there and, he's driving around town one day and in his I'm picturing one of these, you know, model a's, you know, and he's driving around because not everybody had a car back. If you had a car back then, you're you're pretty well off. You know? And he's driving around and he he makes a wrong turn somewhere and he puts the car right through the front of someone's house and lands in their living room. And he wasn't hurt.

And the woman is standing plowing through her house. And then he steps out of the car and he says he shouted by the way, in case you haven't figured out. And he says, Madeline, I ain't trouble you for a cup of coffee. I'm not gonna be able to get out. And he says, madam, I ain't trouble you for a cup of coffee.

Well, she didn't think that was very funny And, she did call the cops and, he got arrested. He got arrested for drunk driving and he was taken into, he was taken into jail he had to go see the judge the next day. Judge's name was, Graves, Judge Graves. And he, went before the judge, and the judge says, this doesn't look good. How long are you here, Debbie?

And then he says, I don't know. I don't know. He says, well, if you're not gonna leave what you usually do, if you get into any more trouble, I am sending you away. I'm sending you away. And he meant that he was gonna put heavy away.

He was gonna lock him up in insane asylum. Because at that time, that's really the only thing that's available for alcoholics. I mean, you either got sober or they locked you up. I mean, that's the way it was because you were insane for your own protection. Abby promises to be a good boy.

He's not gonna get into any more trouble anymore. An alcoholic. Do you hear what I said? An alcoholic is not gonna get into any more trouble. I promise.

Okay. He goes back home. Now, the the house that they lived in, the Manchester was on the main street. It was on the, was right in the center of town and Eby figures, well, I'm not gonna drink. I'm gonna stay out of trouble.

And if I do drink, I'm gonna stay out of trouble too. Alright? So heavy figures that he's gonna keep himself busy. He was he was a pretty handy guy. So he got himself a big bucket of paint.

Decides he's gonna start work on the house. It's gonna become a home a home builder now or or a home improvement expert. So he gets himself a bucket of paint and and some bows. Because after all, he's busy doing painting the house. He can't get in trouble if it's shit fest.

Right? So he starts painting the house. Unfortunately, he had a little bit too much and he could only make it up the first two rungs of the ladder. Otherwise, he'd fall off and he didn't want to get too high up. So he's painting like this and he paints this big yellow stripe along the bottom of the house And that's about as far as he got.

He got to the end and just as he's finishing, he looks up and he notices there's a bunch of pigeons have landed up on the upon the house. And what what are pigeons famous for? Well, they're famous for a few more things because I have pigeons by the way. I'm I'm I I raise pigeons. And I could and I spend every weekend shoveling pigeon shit.

Okay? Pounds and pounds of pigeon shit. If anybody wants some, Don't let you anybody grow tomatoes here? Nobody grows tomatoes. Okay.

Well, I sold some on eBay over in Taiwan. It's very it's a very coveted prize, my pigeon shit. I have a lot of shit. Okay. I shouldn't say shit till I'm sure.

He decides that he doesn't want these pigeons up there because the pigeons have begun here comes the shit on his paint. And the pigeon shit is running into his yellow paint. Well, Evie is is is infuriated. He goes running into the house, goes running and he comes running back out. He's got a 12 gauge shotgun and he blasting up in it.

And the pigeons are flying, and he's shooting the thing up in the air, trying to kill the pigeons. And this is in the center of town, you know. Now now this is the 1800, not the 7th the 1900, not the 1800. It's not exactly the Wild Wild West, but, you know, ordinances have gone into place in most civilized societies and towns, and you're really not allowed to run down the main street shooting a shotgun off of the air. The neighbors just didn't like it.

So they called the police and then he gets arrested again. Now he's in real now he's in real trouble because he's going away now. He's gotta go before Judge Graves again. Up in the meanwhile, at within the Oxford Commune, Roland hears about this. He hears about the prop, and he decides he's gonna show up for the hearing.

So, Roland has it, who's now not drinking. A person by the name of Zebra Graves, who happened to be the son of the judge went down there and happened to be in the Oxford group. Coincidence. Right? And another fellow by name is Shep Shep Cornell go down and, it was all set up.

I mean, I think it was set up. I don't know. But they also I mean, the judge is the judge's son is showing up and he gets they managed to get Evie released in their recognizance to the Oxford to the Oxford group. On one condition, get him the hell out of the state. Just get him out of here.

We don't want him here. And they said, we would. We'll get him out of here. So Evie now is up here in the commune in the ox with the oxford people. Look at the right one.

And with the oxford people and they sent him down to New York to New York City, lower Manhattan. And this is where they send him to. Remember remember our friend Sam? Well, Sam has now become the pastor of the church in New York City at the First Calvary Church and has actually set up a mission away from the church where derelicts and alcoholics and and people who need help. It was like a soup kitchen type of thing.

And he can get he's getting to push the Oxford group stuff that he learned in that he learned in China that had his conversion when Frank Buckman was there. So Abby is not down there handing out soup and whatever he does down there. He's helping other people and he's not drinking. He's following the tenants, the 6 tenants. One of them, of course, is to help others.

That's the 6 tenants which later became on 12th. Part of on 12th staff. Right? Okay. Now, let's talk about I'm just setting this all up and we're bringing it together.

Let's talk about Bill. Bill w. Bill w and Lois. Bill w and Lois, of course, you know, they fall in love up there. And, and they wind up getting married.

Bill has to go. Bill enroll he's in the ROTC program up there and he goes as a second lieutenant of France. Before he goes up, he's down in he's down right around here actually. Fairhaven. Fairhaven?

He's Your first drink in Fairhaven. He has his first drink. He was he was stationed actually in Fairhaven. Haven. Fan it's actually Fair Haven?

No. Okay. Well, most people's people never, but they've heard of New Bedford or This area. The Okay. Well, he's in the neighborhood.

This neighborhood. And he has and he has see this is this is where I identify with you people because Fairhaven is over here somewhere else. And here's the Bronx. And he has a Bronx cocktail. Anybody ever heard of a Bronx Bronx cocktail?

He has a Bronx cocktail. It's made of, I never heard of a Bronx. I'm from the Bronx. I never heard of the Bronx cocktail. Bronx cocktail.

I we just, you know, whatever we could find. Because it was vermouth, gin. I think it was vermouth gin, and, and orange juice. And he has that and he and he had the same experience that we all know we all know about. He felt like he belonged, you know, he talks about extensively in his in his writings later on how he felt.

He felt powerful. He felt uncomfortability started to leave, and he knew that he alcohol was a solution to Bill's problem. They had never they had never never even knew he really had until it was gone. Anyway, he takes that experience and he goes over to Europe. He goes to France.

He goes to England. He comes across, you know, he goes to Winchester Cathedral. He has a spiritual experience at Winchester Cathedral at the gravestone. I don't know if you know about the gravestone. And he's over there.

He's in love with Lois. They're married. He's he's still at war. Okay. He comes back and they move in with, they move in with with Lois's parents.

Lois with the Vernon family. Vernon family, you know, was one of the one of the wealthy people at that. They were dent he was a dentist at Troy in, in Brooklyn Heights in New York City, which now is a, it's quite a lot of neighborhood right now. Been totally gentrified. And they move in with with actually sorry.

I gotta hit Brooklyn again. So they moved to 182 Clinton Street in Brooklyn and that's where they're living. And Bill is drinking like like nothing. He gets a job in an insurance company. The insurance company, He was too drunk to take the test.

Didn't I don't know if he showed up or not. I know he's too drunk to take the test. Even if he had taken it, I guess, he probably wouldn't have passed. And, things are not looking too good. He's really gets ridden out on a rail out of Wall Street.

And I could tell you, my background also happens to be from Wall Street. I was an investment banker and, I could tell you when you get a bad reputation on Wall Street, nobody wants to touch you. Nobody wants to touch you anymore. So he's no longer he's he's out of work, out of money. His wife, Lois, finally goes to get a job and she gets a job working in Macy's on 34th Street in Manhattan.

And she's bringing home that, you know, a little bit of money, whatever little money she can get from that. And Bill's stealing the money out of her cars and buy boats and make the boats, make bathtub gin. Because at at that time, bathtub gin well, I don't know the exact recipe, but it doesn't sound too good. I know it's got juniper berries in it, and, I don't even know why why they would call it gin. There's no gin in it, but it got your shit fenced, I guess.

And people would make this stuff in the bathtub and they put it in big jars, mayonnaise jars or whatever, and they hide it all around the house. Well, that's what Bill is doing. Evie is working at the mission. Bill is shattered in Brooklyn and Evie is about Bill's condition. And he knows that he's gotta help another alcoholic or he's gotta help another person because that's part the Oxford group deal.

So he's gonna go now and keep his salvation, but don't forget it's not only just about drinking at that time with the Oxford Grove. It was about going to heaven, you know. They had a god and you accepted their god just like most religions. And he had picked it up. He could gives Bill a call one day, and Bill has been in and out of town's hospital.

I'm gonna get to that town's hospital in a moment. But Bill has been in and out of re rehab, we'll call it for lack of a better word. He's not doing so well. He's met up with, doctor Silpork. He's been introduced to doctor Silpork, but it's not working.

Whatever whatever treatment. He's just drawing out his detox and he's going back out. Evie comes back. Evie comes to Brooklyn, calls him up and says, I wanna talk to you. Now, Bill is absolutely ecstatic over this.

He hasn't seen Eddie in a while. He doesn't know that Eddie is sober, and he can't wait to see him. But I don't know about you. I used to love to hang out out with people who drank worse than I did. And that's what because if you couldn't keep up with me, you weren't worth shit to be honest with you because you'd probably be going home early or doing something stupid, like, wanting to call your wife or something, and you'd be a big pain in the ass.

Abby and Bill had a great time to write them together. As a matter of fact, one time they were in, they actually were up in Manchester or they weren't in Manchester. They're away from Manchester. They want they wanted to get to Manchester and they actually, the Manchester Airport was about to open and they wanted to get there for the grand opening of the airport. As if there are no airports up there at that time and air air travel is just coming into vogue at the time.

And Evie and Bill get shit faced and they decide, let's get an airplane and fly to Manchester, which they did. They got a pilot. I don't know if the pilot was drunk it. But, but I tell you, Abby and Bill were and they get there for the grand opening of the, of the Manchester Airport and they pull in and they step out of the plane and the band's plane and the banners are flying and and every everyone is cheering and cheerleaders are jumping up and down. And, they're stepping off the plane and, you know, soaking in the glory.

Unfortunately, they got there the day before the opening. That was the high school practicing. It's been put it for the next day. But in stories like that, he wanted to get together with Evie and talk about the good old days, you know. So Evan gets on a train, goes out to 182 Clinton Street, Bill opens the door, he walks in.

Most of you know the story. He walks in and Phil takes one look at him and says, something's wrong with this guy, you know. He looked he was clear eyed. He was sober. He had color in his face, and, he sat every down.

He poured he poured him up a big tumbler of, of his bathtub gin, one for himself, which by the way, mixed with, pineapple juice. He wasn't drinking strike. This wasn't a this was a a social event. This wasn't real serious drinking. Yeah.

And he figured that if, if Lois came home and put him drinking, at least if he mixed with with pineapple juice, it wouldn't be any it wouldn't be anything serious, you know. But mostly he drank it straight. And he looks at Abby and he says, what's what's up with you? What's going on? How come you're not drinking?

And then he says, one thing that was Bill did not wanna hear. He says, I found religion. And Bill says, holy shit. Okay. You know, that's the end of this that's the end of this happy event.

But he was curious about it. What he didn't know was that Heavy was there with purpose. Heavy was there to what we know today is the 12 step in, to do a 12 step call. They didn't know it at the time, but that's exactly what he was there for. He was able to bring him to sit the the 6 tenants of the Oxford group to save his soul.

And Bill just wasn't having any of it. And he started running his his laxative group routine on Bill and Bill just was rejecting the god issue. Bill was basically, a he was an agnostic. He believed in, he believed that that there was something controlling the universe. But like he says, as all of the heavens, I I just can't buy that.

I just can't buy that at all. And this is this is frustrating, Ebi, terribly, because Ebi has got to run his routine on him. He can't save his soul if he he's not taking the God thing. He's not buying the God thing. Ebbie finally says, alright.