Debbie D. from Concord, CA answering questions on steps 10, 11 and 12 at the Road to Recovery convention in Reykjavik, Iceland

Alright. Here's some questions, and I've got some answers. Okay. Really, like like Steven Hector, I I I think q and a is such a, you know, really just, again, comes alive because how do we apply our experience? These are obviously questions that you have and haven't heard, maybe a suggestion or a solution for them, and maybe I can enlighten you with something that I've done here.

Often when I've gone through the first 9 steps with the sponsee, they stop the when I work with someone and take them through the steps, because the 9th step, making amends, may take a very long time for them to complete that list, we still continue when we talk about 10 and 11 and 12. But when we're done, my commitment to the people I sponsor is we then go into the 12 traditions. We then review the 12 concepts, And then we review the front of the service manual, which is all the different categories and opportunities of service through our service structure. There's not a race to get through this information, but I want them to know the entire three legacies of our program. And so this is what I do, to keep their interest or keep their attention.

So yes, there are some things to do. How long time should the program take? Mornings? Evenings? I'm not exactly sure, what that means if it, how long time should the program take?

So maybe if you wanna come up and talk to me afterwards. I'm not sure what you're asking there. I'm sorry. Is the program not just forcing a positive attitude upon oneself? Boy, I needed one.

I needed a positive attitude. They talk about we're brainwashed. Hey, the old saying was, hey, my name my brain needs washing. I needed new tools because the ones I had were very limited and they were of my own making, very faulty in design and, very minimal. And, yes, this has helped me to gain a better attitude.

Now there's some people who just always will be of a cynical nature, but maybe they won't be as cynical. I don't know. But it it certainly did impose or force me into a positive attitude. Instead of looking at everything as negative and victimized and so forth, I I I have an opportunity to look at it at a whole different way. An opportunity of growth.

High. In the last high. In the last paragraph on page 84, it says, and we have ceased fighting anything or anyone, even alcohol. I agree. But why do people still talk of a physical or emotional craving?

Why are these not, why are why are they not free some of them from fighting after years of sobriety? Well, I know that my experience at 26 years was of a physical craving. I don't call or look at myself as a booze fighter, which for me is is someone who just doesn't drink. I I was that probably those first 7 months when I just didn't drink and went to one meeting a month and and and toughed it out, you know. I'll be because really the the whole point in toughing it out for me was to keep them off my back.

Take the focus off of me and get them thinking somewhere else. That booze fighting thing. If I know that it's just really important. I didn't like the fact that I felt that way. It was it was very terrifying to me because I thought what am I doing wrong?

And to, you know, and I and I had to just look at my own inventory. And there wasn't anything I could see that I was doing wrong. There wasn't anything that I could I was justifying or rationalizing away. It just was the fact that I have the disease of alcoholism, and I am not cured of that. And that means that there will be times when I'm gonna think about it where apparently I will feel the craving or be mentally obsessed.

But the the thing of it is is I don't have to take the action. And whenever that has ever happened to me it's always passed because I've stayed so close to the middle of you. I've stayed in the middle of the herd. I've stayed in the pack. It's the ones, as I said last night, who drink, who who have faded away.

They've gotten their new higher power in a hymn or a job or the children or I'm gonna fix this relationship and and they begin to, you know, get rid of the sponsees. They they don't need to call their sponsor or they know all that stuff. And that kind of thinking gets happening. And that is some of the most dangerous thinking for somebody like myself. At 28 years of sobriety, not that I need my sponsor to tell me what color to paint my nails.

No. But I love to check my thinking out with her on things that revolve my mental and emotional states. I really do. It's a lot safer for me to do that. How much meditation in your experience does a new person need?

And do you talk to God first and then listen or vice versa? How much meditation does new person need? Boy, you know, you try and be quiet for just one minute and you've got a lot of committees going on up here. You got a lot of thinking going on up here. Meditation for me has not ever been again, my own experience has not ever been one where I have sat for long periods of time with a quiet head, with a quiet thought.

Usually, it's something about 5 or 10 minutes sitting out in the garden of our home and just looking at God's creation. A lot of times it's just sitting in a meeting and watching somebody take a first year birthday cake. A lot of times it's just watching some of these new ones come on fire. That to me is meditation. Now I don't know if I'm explaining that very well or if again, it's not so much that I feel I I feel like I'm a lot more of service in an upright capacity than waiting for the internal self knowledge to come in from God that he will express through me.

I think he talks to me through you. He talks sponsor. Maybe they have some suggestions. I know that I, spending a lot of time alone, really got confusing. Do I talk to god first and listen or vice versa?

I I I generally start off with the okay, let's go. And we get on about our day, and I think that he just provides those moments of listening time to me in the times that I mentioned. What do you what do you do when a spot see you've been working the steps with stops calling you? Do you call her once, twice, or not at all? I actually have an experience right now happening, or I've had a couple recently, but the the one I'm thinking of is, here's a woman I've sponsored for probably 10 years now.

11, 8, 9, 10 years. And it's been very, very regular in calling. Very regular. We had a what what works very well for me with the women I sponsor out of town is that we have a set time to call every week and we confirm that each week because that way we're not playing telephone tag and I can I can be there mentally? She's there mentally.

We get our work done on the phone. We take those 30 minutes. And that that works very well for me. And due to a variety of things, she hasn't been able to have or create or find a regular time that could be committable for her. So I've just said keep in touch, you know, stay in touch.

At least call me once a week. And I find that a nice continued connection. But a month went by. And, so I sent her an email. I hope you're doing well.

I hadn't heard from you in a while. Hope things are going okay. I followed it up with a phone call on both home phone, cell phone, no callback. Couple days later, I still haven't heard anything, and so I called her son. That's like my I it's not like I like to go through other people to get to someone.

But he was my last resource because I don't know. Is she in the hospital? Is she injured? Has she died? You know, in in her case she's having to stay underground due to a a situation.

And he informs me of what's been going on and and so forth. And, so finally she called me and I said and she said I've been sick. I've been in and out of the hospital. I've been having problems with here. I said, you know, I'm sorry to hear that but I would not have known any of this.

You know, it I'm here to be of support if you'd like it. I'm here for you. And because of this situation going on in her life, it's not like she can have this big circle of inclusion. She has to continue to stay a bit hidden. And yet and I'm one of those people that's been in the corner all the time of support.

Well, I I know. I know. Well, now another month has gone by and no contact. And again, it you know, what I've learned over the years is not to make assumptions of what they are or are not doing. I have to adjust that and make sure my ego is out of the way.

What do you mean they're not calling me? I've to make sure my ego is out of the way, but more importantly, that I come from this place of I'm not their mother, I'm not their warden, I'm not their, you know, you know, sergeant. I'm someone here who's to who's willing to be service and to help them if they would like help. And so I know that when I return, I will give her a call and see how she's doing. Now at this point, I probably won't be making more calls.

I don't have a problem reaching out, but I reach out to a certain point. After 2 or 3 times, I've made it very clear that I'm here to be of help. I'm not here to judge you. I'm not here to change whatever you're doing. I'm just here to be of support if you would like it.

If you don't like my support, that's okay too. And like I mentioned earlier about the gal who said I don't wanna do this anymore. I will focus my energy and my thoughts on the ones who do want to do it. And I have to remember that it's not that, you know, I did anything wrong. People just can take adrift.

You know, I haven't changed anything that I've done. But people can take adrift. As long as I am consistent with my actions, that is the best thing that I can do. And should she call, there's no judgment. We you know, you haven't called me in a month blah blah blah blah blah.

I don't need to hammer anybody. That's the least thing that they need. They know they haven't called me in a month. I don't need to remind them. I don't need to put them on some restriction.

This is not that type of a deal we're in. I just need to, hey, are you okay? What can I do to help? That's that's where I come from. And I also am am more than willing to let people go and on their own journey for whatever they need to do because I don't know what it is.

I'm on this path and if you wanna join up, hey, come on. Let's have a good time. And if you find something else you wanna do, God bless you. You know? Follow your own conscience.

Very clear. Hey, if you need to separate off, go do it. I'll be here when you get back without judgment or or you have to, you know, pay homage to me or anything like that. Not by any means. So that's what I do.

Few times and then let them know that I'm here and I love you, and I love you, and I'm here. And I'm here out for a few times and then let them know that I'm here and I love you and I'm here if you want help. I've talked about how to work daily meditation. Oh, here's one. Should one make in the evening inventory in writing?

I know that some some people do, some people don't. I'm not one that does. The time when I will take an inventory in writing is almost like a little mini 4 step. If I'm really troubled about something and it just keeps circling and circling and driving me crazy, that's the time when I can when a piece of paper and a pen helps because there is magic that comes through that. Not on the computer, not on the checklist.

There's something very magical that depowers this thing when it goes head to hand to pen to paper. And so, yes, a few times but not on a daily. I just don't take the time to write an evening inventory. Should we bring a newcomer to our home as Bill did? It's clear on the directions in here.

Make sure that it doesn't interfere with your family. Sometimes you'll need to do that type of thing. I have done it. I always make and it says make sure that you're doing the right thing. It's not how to give, but when to give.

You know, make sure that they're not becoming dependent upon me by so doing, because then there's this, you know, well, will you help me get a job? And will you give me clothes? And will you give me a place to live? And all that. Make sure that you're you know, it's okay with your family.

I don't find that it's it's good to have them there for a long time. That's not been my experience. Just a short while to help them get on their feet. People helped me get on my feet. I like to think that this is my opportunity to pay it back.

But each situation is of its own guidance and of its own circumstances. How do you deal with other peep or when other people treat you unkindly or say hurtful hurtful things in your daily inventory. There is, I I I was reminded of this when Steve was talking. Thanks, Steve, for the reminder, about that inventory and about amends and stuff like that. Thanks a lot, Steve.

It's one that I've really been tossing around, and I have talked about it with my sponsor. I had a situation, with with a woman who I was sponsoring. She and I had been friends for a number of years. She asked me to sponsor her because I'd moved up to closer to her area. She'd had a long distance sponsor, and now I'm closer where she could actually drive to see me.

And so we began this journey of sponsorship together, and for the first 4 or 5 months everything really went very well, and and then things started happening with her work. And a couple things I I found here is that, I I'm not so militant that, you have to call me at this time even though it totally interrupts your schedule of the day. You know, we find a a compatible time for each other. And again, the point being is that my I'm here. You're there.

We're not playing phone tag for a week. I'm busy. They're busy. We find something compatible. Okay.

So now this this time that we had was not compatible. And so okay. Here's here's my schedule, which what will work for you. She selects the time, misses it half the time. Well, I'm this.

I'm that. Okay. If this time isn't workable anymore, what is? She picked so so I I I'm, again, trying to be accommodating and yet still take the role of guidance or sponsor or whatever. Not in a militant way, but so but what's happening is there's this shift and then there's this I'm being told what she's gonna do now And I don't know, but that just always kinda rubs me the wrong way.

I'm so, more susceptible if we can kind of, susceptible if we can kind of, collaborate versus you're telling me what you're gonna do, you know. So now you're gonna kinda sponsor yourself and I'm just in it for the, you know, picture. And, so time goes by and then all this, you know, I don't hear from her for a couple of months and I get an email. And she's very big on emails that, well, she's just not sure what she's gonna do about this sponsorship thing. You know, I mean we're both too sober long enough.

We sponsorship thing. You know? I mean, we're both too sober long enough. We now to to be talking about minute stuff like this. But so we're both so how do we get to resolve if we're both too sober long enough to talk about a problem that's obviously got something to do with me because I'm your so called sponsor.

Uh-huh. Okay. Well, okay. Well, I'm just gonna leave this one alone for a little while and I just sent an email back. Well, I hope that you find some sort of resolve for yourself.

And if there's anything I can do, let me know. Any way I can help. And I love you. And, you know, I just hope you find some kind of peace there. And so I, for the women I sponsor, I I do, a a list, which has your name and your phone number.

So because many of us travel around and you kinda get an, feel for where the people you were if you're traveling, you got like a sober family member to call. And so I called and I said I, you know, hope things are going well. I hadn't heard from you in a while and I just wanted to know if you still wanted to be on the sponsorship list or not. No. I don't I don't think so.

I said, okay. That's fine. You know, I I, you know, I believe that you're probably still calling your old sponsor, and that's great. And, you know, I I'm sorry things didn't work out and as you'd hoped and blah blah. And so there was this, you know, you are just awesome.

You are just so gracious about this. And, hey, no problem. I'm, you know, we we can still be friends and so forth. And Okay. That was in the morning.

So that afternoon, I get an email saying, again, I you know, how wonderful I was and all that and, gracious and just lots of beautiful accolades. Okay. And, gee, maybe, you know, I love to go to the movies too. Maybe we could get together and go to the movies sometime when you're free and and, start a new job thing here. And so I responded with what I thought was a a kind, response.

I said, yo, thanks for the you know, oh, you're welcome. Glad I could be of service for as long as I was to you. You know, as far as getting together for movies, I don't know. My schedule is so filled up right now. I don't know when that would be, but, you know, that'd be great.

Sometime, good luck on the new job. Blah blah blah. Love, Deb. That was early after or late afternoon. On Monday, this was like on a Friday on Monday, I got the most venomous, vicious vicious email about my response.

How arrogant do I think I am that your schedule is so busy? How patronizing I was? I mean, it was just let me just say if you please don't write venomous emails to anybody. They're very it was like a drive by shooting. And it was unprovoked.

I did not feel that it was provoked. It was it was devastating to get them. And, and I I was just crushed because my it never ever ever was my intention to cause harm, to imply that I was arrogant or patronizing not by any means at all. And, that it was would have been bitter if I hadn't responded at all. And so anyway, I am just I'm just trashed.

So I called my sponsor. She doesn't I don't Says, oh, well that was fine. Well, they they didn't think that. And when I read her the other one without drama to it and just read the words, she said, you know, I just don't understand where that would have come from. Now I'm not telling you that to justify that I'm perfect or I did nothing wrong.

I don't know. And I, you know, I I didn't sugar coat it for my sponsor at all. And I, so she said I said, I want to know. I I'm way too emotionally involved with this. Here's what I would like to send back, and she agreed.

And so I sent back, dear so and so, I am very sorry that my email was hurtful. It was never intended to be. I wish you a journey on this path and look forward to seeing you again sometime soon. Love, Debbie. Because it went from love so and so to so and so.

And, the email came back because it was blocked. So as soon as hers got sent, the only thing I can think of is that whatever There was She was not interested in anything I was going to be that That I would cause so much hurt to somebody that they would respond so poisonously. I have not seen her yet. I have not made a phone call. I don't know as of this moment what the conclusion of this story will be.

But I do know that every time she comes into my mind, I don't want it to stay there very long. I practice bless her, bless her, bless her, and change me. Bless her and change me. I practice that saying of the prayers at night for her prosperity, her happiness, her spiritual path, all that kind of stuff whenever I'm troubled by that again. I don't want revenge.

That's not where I go. I just don't understand that kind of that kind of hurt. Secondly, I also know, which again does not justify it, I also know I'm on the long list of people this has happened I can live at peace with that. So I pray for them. Most of the time she's not in my mind anymore.

But when it comes in, I try not to have conversations with people who aren't there, you know. Great little thing I learned a couple years ago. Very helpful too. I tell you, don't you hate it when you have I I have certain scenes in my life that I have replayed. They're 8 9 years old, but I have replayed them and redone my part, you know, every time.

It's like a film that you try to edit. It doesn't edit and just you just gotta shelve that stuff. That's probably a really long answer to your question, but I hope that it helps, because it was hurtful. And when I do think of it, this is where I go. God, if I do see her or have an occasion, let me have some dignity and grace about it.

Give me the words that I'm gonna need to respond or take care of a situation, and do the right sober action. Thank you. I just wanna thank Debbie, Hector, and Steve for a great journey today. And