Soberfest 2005 in Jamestown, ND

My name is Jim Martin. I'm an alcoholic. Hi. Jim. Thank you.

I've been sober since March 29, 1989. Thanks to sponsorship. I'd like to thank, Scott, Jeff, and Jim for inviting me to come up and being so hospitable. I've known all of them for for many years in various capacities and there's a lot of, connections between this group here and and and, our group back home, and and it's really it's nice to be able to come and hang out and enjoy some, good time with you guys. I'd also like to shout out to Cliff over here who, if you guys, wanna hear a good talk, you need to come tonight.

Cliff, Cliff was a big big part of my early sobriety and went and stayed with him for a few days before, my wife and I got married. And, and, I would go anywhere Cliff was when I was the first couple of years. I just love Cliff, and it's great, good to see him. And again thank you all for having me. I was born into an untypical alcoholic home and in that both my parents were sober, sober members of AA, both were active, and AA was a constant feature of of, our home life from the earliest that I can remember.

We lived in Washington DC for the 1st few years and moved out to, moved out to Bellevue. My dad was seeking a geographic cure of some sort. I'm not sure where it was, but but we moved out and and, again, you know, they they very active, started groups, and and a lot of people around, people people over the house all the time. And and and I always loved alcoholics because, they they told raunchy jokes, and had stories that my other little friends didn't get to hear, and you know, corrupted me at an early age, all sorts of things. And and so so I always I always love people in AA.

At the same time, I felt as as you hear, you know, in these rooms constantly that that, I had been I had been left out of the meeting, that in which everything was explained. I I would go to school, and I just didn't understand what these people wanted, you know, or or where they were coming from. It just it just didn't make sense. I always felt, apart from spotlight's always on me. The focus is always, you know, on me when I mess up, and and and, you know, I I, you know, that's that's how I started life.

I when I was 6 or 7, I used to think that you know soon they are going to get me figured out. And, I am going to get locked up, you know, I am nuts, I am crazy, I don't you know, I I I stay awake at night thinking about stuff, and it just runs and runs and runs. And, and, you know, that's that's not a healthy 7 year old attitude. It's not a good place to be. I had a bunch of little friends and we all lied to each other about stuff, and that's that's kind of what I did.

I was the kind of guy that that I was I was smart, but, I did well in school, but it it was never enough. Kind of like Jim was talking about this morning. You know, it's it's whatever the achievement was didn't didn't fill that hole, didn't make me feel any, like I'd done anything. It was just I'm covering up for all this other stuff, and so I've gotta keep overachieving to do this. And I was also the kind of guy that, let's say, there's a sport activities, you know, whatever.

If if I don't straight out of the gate be in the first one, 2, or 3 people, you know, let's say it's a race, You know, if I'm not 1, 2, or 3, then I I'm I'm not gonna do that anymore. I quit. You know? I'm not willing to put in the work to do what's necessary to over, you know, to overcome whatever the problem is. So I would quit and then begin to complain about the people who were doing it.

You know, they have the problem, you know. And, that that led to some problems later. I, My first drink was an accident. We went to see, it really was, we went to see a play. My family actually, my mom and dad and me, went to see this play, and they served me the wrong thing a couple of times.

And I got wasted and and they were laughing at me and it was a good time and I enjoyed myself. And that didn't you know, it's funny, I'm like in 6th grade, and usually you have some mandatory drug and alcohol education around that time. And I remember seeing this book that was like a depiction of how somebody, you know, an artist's depiction of how somebody felt when they were drunk, and and I thought, that I I like that picture. That looks that looks interesting to me. And and of course, I've heard all these people in AA.

I mean, they they obviously had a good time, you know, and, I never even, you know, I I've been around AA, I've been to many meetings, and heard many things. I could have told you, you know, how what's the proper way to do a 4th and 5th step. I probably could have reeled that off, you know. If you have a sponsor, what should you do? You know, what kind of thing?

How many meetings should you go to? What kinds of things you could do? I knew, you know, I could probably quote you some of the big book even, but it had absolutely no application to my life whatsoever. It's just intellectual knowledge, that I just knew these things, but they had no application to me. That is how I looked at it.

And as soon as, you know, I was another aspect of how I was was that the way that, I would be what I thought you wanted me to be. People who I was always looking for people to follow and to emulate, and and when I would find somebody, then I would want to do the stuff that they did. So you know, I started hanging out with 2 guys who are now in AA. I was going to show you anything. They are both sober less than me, though.

I got that on them. But, they, I started hanging out with these 2 guys, and one of them was just, crazy Irish guy, and and he he, just fun, just, you know, he did stuff that I didn't have the guts to do, but I could hang out with him and kinda catch a little of the afterglow of that, you know. And, you know, we'd go down to Plattsmouth and, you know, start fights with air force people, and, you know, do all kinds of, you know, he got kicked out of like 6 apartments with, you know, and his dad was real happy about that. It was all his fault, and this is all junior high. And this guy this guy was just, you know, he was nuts, but he was fun.

You know, he was just so much fun. And the other guy was was a little less insane than that, but but, you know, they were doing stuff and having a good time, and and and and I I just really desperately wanted that. And so, yeah, I did what they did, which was drink and and take drugs and do everything else. And, and essentially when it started off, it was just kind of a situation of, okay, this is a every couple of weeks thing, and these guys are doing this all the time, but I could manage to hang out with them at that kind of level. And and for the 1st year, you know, it was great.

I mean, we just had a great time, there weren't any real consequences, you know, I had a girlfriend, and all these things that, you know, weren't possible before that because I was just way too self consumed to ever talk to people. And, then problems start coming in, because if you're going to accelerate your partying, you must have money. And when you're in 8th grade, you know, you've got your lawn mowing, you got your paper routes, you got your, you know, selling the Christmas cards, you know. I got a job working at a coupon counting, place where they own this place owned several grocery stores, and these people, and all the coupons would come in. And, I I got a job there.

It was a nice job, and this was like 80 2, you know, something like that. It was, like, $9 an hour to count coupons. And and I would you know, I'm I'm I'm getting pretty more accelerated now, so this is becoming a every couple of days going out. Every cup weekends and maybe a weekday during the week kind of thing. And and I was just, you know, I would I would look at those coupons and just that's a lot of coupons.

I mean, grocery stores get coupons all the time, and they pile up quick, and and there's all these different things. I would look at these boxes of coupons and just go, well, looks like, 143 coupons in that box. You know, that looks like, you know if that's 1463 this looks like about 920 4, you know. This looks like about 648, you know. And and I got fired.

And So that was good, you know. So so you know I've got I'm starting to have to lie, cheat, and steal to do what I want to do. And this is the early 80s, and this is basically my attitude was that you know, if I have a job, I'm really just providing money for the military industrial complex to, to you know, hasten the nuclear Armageddon that's coming down on us. And and you know, the best thing you can do is just live it up as much as possible before the end, because it's coming. I mean end of the world is coming.

It's just a matter of time, and you know, so you know, that's that's my attitude. I also began to, have the attitude that if if, I'm cool, and I am not cool. Okay? I'm not. I don't know if anybody ever saw that movie, Almost Famous, where the guy says, there's cool people, you're not cool.

I needed somebody to tell that to me, but nobody ever did. Like these guys I was hanging out with, they were cool, but I was not cool. I'm the kind of guy that we would go out and and we would go, let's say we were going to walk over to somebody's house or something. We would get drunk, and I would end up falling in the mud, you know, or something, and, you know, getting all dirty, and, you know, we'd we'd walk in and they'd be spotless and, you know, have it all together and, you know, here I am. There's Jim.

You know? I'm the guy, you know, that gets in the fight with the football player, gets beat up in the front yard, and, you know, that kind of thing. And and, you know, just kind of a sloppy drunk, and embarrassing, do stupid stuff, and you know, just just not cool. But I thought I was. So I began to have this attitude that I'm not gonna speak to anyone unless they speak to me first, because they need to they need to have respect for me.

And, I got kinda lonely, No one no one would talk to me. Around the time I went to high school, a lot of my friends, this one friend of mine decided to, to have an adventure, and he went to, he went to live at a rest stop out in Nevada. And he ran away from home, and this other friend of mine got sent to the local juvenile detention facility for a year and a half, and this other guy, he went to the other high school in my town, so I went to a new high school, and and it just got worse and worse. And and I'm basically I'm I'm stealing money from my grandparents and my parents, and and and I'm partying all the time, and we're drinking large quantities of alcohol. And I loved AA then too because my parents would always go to these conventions and meetings, which provides a convenient time to have 2 or 3 hours at least, you know, where where nothing is going on, and and they are not there.

And so people would come over to the house, and we would just get wasted, and, and and drink just tons of the cheapest beer that you could buy. And we were quantity before quality was the motto. So we'd get the old style, and then at that time they had the actual beer, you know, where it just said beer on it. Which was just the cheapest stuff you could possibly buy. And and, it was it was just it was just going downhill.

And and I'm in high school, and and, you know, I I I managed to hold I could hold it together enough for a while, but then it just got to, you know, I I I do well in a few classes and and get c's and d's and f's and the others. And I and I began I got to the point where I couldn't intellectually do it anymore. I couldn't, you know, I used to be able to get it together for a semester and get the parents off my back, and I couldn't do that anymore. And, as I said, I wasn't talking to anybody, and and it just seemed like, you know, I was surrounded by all these preppy people, and, you know, they weren't any fun. And and, it just got worse and worse, and I I decided that, you know, what I need to do and, you know, I don't know how you guys talk about this kind of thing, but I smoked a lot of pot and I drank a lot.

And I decided that, you know my problem is that I am smoking way too much pot and I need to quit smoking pot. If I quit smoking pot, I will at least be able to get out of high school because it wasn't looking good. So, I quit smoking pot, which really wasn't a big deal, and and but I continued to drink, which seemed to be acceptable to most people. It wasn't as big of a problem as all the other stuff. And I got a job working for some people in AA.

I wonder how I got that job. I got a job working at this restaurant that everybody there was in AA. And again, at this time, you know, all this girl that we knew, this girl, she moved off to go to the Art Institute of Chicago, and my friend was deep into, methamphetamine abuse, and I could not stand to be around him because he was so annoying that he would just talk and talk and talk and talk. And he'd just drive me nuts. And I'm, you know, I'm, like, drink.

Shut up and drink. You know, he would just keep on going, and he was just really annoying. So, so I I again, I'm kind of like isolated from all these people that I knew, and I'm and I'm not talking to people, so I don't make friends, you know, I don't I don't have any other friends really. So, I'm hanging out with these people in AA, and I'm still drinking, you know, still doing that kind of thing. And and here I am surrounded by these people in A, and and they're like, well, do you want to go out with us to a movie after work or something?

Well, okay, you know, I don't have anything else to do, you know, so I started hanging out with these people who are all new and seeing that they were making progress in their lives. And I should go back a little bit and say that my relationship with my parents at this time was they are waiting for me to graduate high school so that they could kick me out. That was pretty much where we were at is that, you know, they had talked to me many times, and I had lied to them many times, and it just wasn't going anywhere, obviously to them. And they were preparing to detach with love. I wasn't looking forward to that, not having much of a work ethic, but, I, you know, again, when I'm going into my senior in high school, I'm like, I better, you know, I kinda see the handwriting on the wall, you know, dimly as it might be.

And so so I got it I I got this job. And and and my opportunities for drinking became fewer and fewer because I'm hanging out with all these people in AA at work. All my friends are off, you know, just going nuts. You know, my other friend, one guy that got into the, into the, youth detention facility got out, went into the army, you know, went to Germany. The other guy is often living on his rest stop, and, everybody else is gone, you know, and so, I I just kinda naturally started hanging out with these guys, and, I started, I started dating somebody who was in AA, which was, again, you know, I'm I'm she pretty much asked me out, you know, because I I I am not talking to people very much.

I'm just, you know, there's a big cloud, and I'm just, you know, like Scott Redmond, like, what? Where? You know, I needed people to say, you know, here's here's the here's what you need to do, and and it was vital to me at that point that that occurred. I was so befuddled that I ended up taking some suggestions from people. Imagine that.

And one of them was, if you're a guy you know, that's dating somebody in AA, and you're not in AA, wink, wink, you know, you you you probably ought to go to Al Anon or something. Just, you know, So I was again, I'm I'm like, okay. You know? I I can do that. So I went to Al Anon.

I got a sponsor I knew all those things, you know, that's what you do. You just don't show up, and I started working the steps, and they were very I never want, you know, a lot of people make jokes about Al Anon and that kind of thing, and I really don't do that because they were very nice, patient people with me, and obviously, I mean, they had to have known, and I know that they knew, but they never said, well, Jim, you know, you probably ought to go over there. They never said that, you know, they just were nice to me, and let me do stuff, and and very nice people, and they, they finally, I just reached the conclusion that, you know, I quit drinking because I have 0 opportunities to drink now, you know, going to Al Anon, I'm dating somebody in AA, all my friends are gone, I'm going to college, I don't know anybody there. So, you know, I guess I guess that's, kind of the way it is. And so I quit drinking, and it just made me uncomfortable, you know, to to think about it even.

And I, I ended up, going on a trip out to, Idaho, and I was sitting in the hotel room, it was a work thing, and I was sitting in the hotel room, and I thought, I heard a song, there was a song on the radio, and I thought, you know, if if I wasn't in the environment that I'm in now, I'd be right back to doing all that same stuff. Stealing, running the streets, out all night, drunk, you know, falling in mud, you know, being a jerk. I would be right back like that, you know, in 2 or 3 weeks. Because at that time, I was thinking about transferring to another school and all these kinds of things. And it just hit me as like a stark revelation that, you know, that's just that's that's the way it would be, and that's not that's not an Al Anon kind of attitude.

Al Anon don't think like that. And, I stewed about it for a little bit because that's kind of how I am. And, I ended up finally, you know, talking to a guy that that I had known for many years who got sober, you know, long before all this happened. I I got him as a sponsor, and and right immediately after that, we got married. We we went out and hung out with Cliff and then came back and got married.

And, that, again, interesting set of circumstances. I was going to college, working, we got married, she was she she was working full time, and and it was it was, I'll tell you what. You know, you want to learn about step 6 and 7, just put a wedding ring on. You'll figure it out. You know, I'm 20, You know, I'm 20 years old, you know, and and that that's it just blows my mind.

You know, back then, it's like, yeah, I'm 20. I'm a man. No. I'm a man who restricted his mental growth and emotional growth at about the age of 11. So if I've sober for a year, maybe I'm 12 now or 13.

And so that was interesting. That was a difficult transition. And she was in AA, she still is, sober to this day, and I don't think I really I was the kind of guy when early in sobriety that I'm going to I became very rigid. And these are all good things. They are all good disciplines, but I became extremely rigid in that.

Okay. We get to the meeting early and we stay late, and that means that I show up at 7:15 if the meeting starts at 8, and I'm gonna be there at 7:15 exactly. And I'm going to stay until the meeting's over at 9. I'm going to stay till 9:30 exactly. You know?

And I'm going to do these activities while I'm there. And and and that's how I approached all these things, you know, and I was just, I'm gonna call my sponsor every day at this exact time. And all that stuff was great, but I took it, you know, to where I'm like compulsive about this kind of stuff. I was just goofy. That's what it that's what it amounts to.

I mean, all these all these people in AA always have have helped me with everything that that's going on. Where the problem lies is up here. And and so I I but I'm sober, I'm working, which is far better than I had been able to achieve before. And I'm married, you know, we're doing well there. You know, we have fights about stupid stuff like everybody does, but you know, things are going pretty good.

So up until about, you know, 5 or 6 years of sobriety, I think what what really occurred is that I emerged from under the THC cloud that had, you know, invaded my mind for 10 years, and I emerged from that, and all of a sudden I'm like, you know, well, who are all these people? You know, what what what am I supposed to do? You know, I kind of started to grow up in in that all these disciplines in reading the big book and all the things that you guys are familiar with, going to meetings, going to do, commitments, you know, going out of town to meetings, and having service at work, and trying to sponsor people, and all that sort of thing, working the steps, I should back up a tiny bit and say that that, you know, making my amends, was I had a lot of financial amends to make, I had a lot of family amends to make, and without doing all those things, One example kind of sums it up in that my grandfather was a 3 star general in the Air Force, and I stole from him. And he didn't know about it, but you know I did.

And what I turned him into as a result of my guilt over having done that was this autocratic jerk who, you know, bossed everybody around, which was not how he was. That's how I thought of him after having done these things. And when I went, I was getting ready to make amends to him, and I told my sponsor, I said, well, you know, this is going to turn out 1 of 2 ways. You know, either he's gonna, you know, reject me from the family as a whole and, you know, not wanna have anything to do with me ever again, or he's gonna call the cops. You know, and that's that's how I saw it.

And like I said, I was goofy. I had never even thought, gee, I wonder if anyone ever made amends to him before. Has he ever had any experience with alcoholics before? Maybe, You know? So I go to the and he couldn't have been, you know, nicer about the whole thing.

I mean, it was it was a a perfect men's experience, and I was completely not expecting that at all. I was expecting, you know, rage and anger and all kinds of bad stuff, and that, you know, at least I would have gotten it done. But but then I have, you know, as a result of that, I had a a relationship with him after that, that was a great thing. So, anyway, I've got about 5, 6 years of sobriety. The sponsor that I had, had a number of problems in that he, he ended up getting divorced.

It was not a not a pretty thing, and it was one of those things where another lesson to be learned. When when somebody gets divorced in a, some people tend to wanna take sides, you know, and forgetting that both of these people are still gonna be going to the same meetings, hopefully. And and that was the case, and and so I'm like, hey, I'm taking sides, you know, it's my sponsor, I'm on I'm on the side, I'm on I'm with them, you know, I'm gonna back them up 100%, which is totally cool. But, he ended up having a lot of resentments built up about this whole deal, and he ended up kind of fading out of AA relatively quickly. He stayed sober, but he's not going to meetings hardly at all, none down where we go.

And he was he just in a real bad way, he was real upset about the whole thing. And, so I'm sitting there, and I I I gotta get another sponsor, so I did. That was a difficult decision, hard thing to do, but, and and again, coming here, talking to people, working it out, it was okay. As things progressed, I began to get, as I said, I was kind of rigid, and there was a situation with somebody else that I knew that that really, really made me mad. I was I was rightfully, what is it?

I had I had righteous anger over the situation, which it it kind of takes a lot for me to get there, but once I'm there, it's it's not good. This person this person really made me mad, and and this person was, you know, not sober more than a year or so, and and they're just she's she's not doing it right, you know. And and, she she got married to a guy, and why why why would he do that? You know, he was a friend of mine. Now, what what is going on with this?

And, and I I judged, I began to judge, and that's not a good thing. Basically where I got to is okay, if if you're my you know, I I can I can sense things, you know, when you reach this heightened state of judgment, you can sense you can sense the hostility of of people in the room when when you haven't even spoken to them or talked about the situation? And I and I can't talk to my sponsor about it because he won't understand, you know, this is this is a big deal, you know. I I, I began to, okay, if you're my friend, what are you doing talking to them? You know, why are you talking to this person when you know that I am your friend, and you know that I don't like them, and what's the deal?

And so, I started to cut myself off from people. And pretty soon, you know, I'm not talking to a sponsor, I'm not talking to these people that were my friends. You know, I I don't feel like I could talk to my wife about it because she's a sponsor for this person. It was just a bad deal. And, and I ended up calling, Scott that Cliff knows, because I'd met him a couple years before, and telling him about, you know, my psychic abilities to predict the future with all these people and what was gonna happen, and and, you know, I just laid it all out.

I said, you know, this is what's going on, you know, I'm I'm isolated here. I'm the only one who knows what the right thing is to do, and they're not paying attention to me. And and he just laughed and laughed and laughed. He just thought that was the funniest thing ever. And, I wasn't particularly amused with that, but I was I was just desperate to for something, because I just it was horrible.

You know, it was just a bad thing, and so I, Scott encouraged me to to work, 4th and 5th, 6, 7, 8, 9 on this this particular subject, which, you know, was absolutely vital to me my continued sobriety, because, you know, one thing he said is he said, you know, these people are over in their house tonight, and they're sleeping. You know? And you're up here, it's 2 o'clock in the morning, and you're talking to me. You know? You're talking to me about how nuts you are, and and why why is that?

You know? They're fine, you know, and and you need you're you're the one who's gonna drink, and they're gonna be off to to do, you know, they don't even know they made you mad, really, because they should be able to figure it out. And, and so I that was the first time I had been to big book meetings before, I had obviously worked the steps, I had made amends to people, I had done all those things, but he encouraged me to go, you know, look at the big book, and and and in that time, you know, looking at that that, the prayers and looking at those steps again, it was like a completely different experience in having done that. And I will say that, you know, getting down on my knees and asking God to remove those defects of character, you know, under his direction was the the, you know, a liberating experience. It was an emotional experience that really, changed because I was in so much pain from doing all this stuff that I was ready to get to be done with that.

And in doing so, I'm not perfect at that, but as he said, you know, why don't you get a hobby? You know, you sit around thinking about all these people all the time, why don't you go do something else? You know, go help somebody else, go read the newspaper, you know, go dig a hole in your backyard, I don't care, you know, something, whatever. And and, that was vital to to to me in that that, I don't need to get into judging people. I don't need to get involved with gossip.

Not saying that I don't, but I I I've learned enough from that situation to avoid it whenever I can. I would say that it's, you know, 90% better, and I can shut it off before we get, you know, real carried away. And during that period of time, we had a son. He was he was very sick for a couple years, but but, he he ended up doing great. Again, you know, we're we're we're married and going through all the things that people do, and and one thing about having kids is that there's always, it's it's almost like getting married again in that that, you know, okay.

Well, I'm we're used to being able to I I mean, I remember we used to be, like, you know, we'd get up and we'd go to work and come home, and, man, I'm tired. You know, I'm gonna take a nap. You know? Let's eat let's eat, you know, nacho cheese cups for dinner. You know?

Or or let's eat let's eat, you know, frosted mini wheats for dinner. That sounds good. You know? And that's and and well, I'm gonna after the meeting, I'm gonna take off and go do something. Oh, no big deal.

You know? And all these things. And you have you have kids, and it's it's told it's not that way anymore. I mean, you can't get out of the car if the kids in the car anymore. You can't, you know, you can't just take off and do whatever you wanna do.

So, you know, fortunately, we were able to break that kind of thing out and say, okay. I'm gonna I'm gonna go to these meetings, you know, and and you you're gonna go to these, and we'll go to these 2 together, and we'll get sitters on these nights, and work all that kind of thing out, which, my wife's a lot smarter about that sort of thing than I am, so she she suggested that, which worked very well. But, but sometimes, you know, that's that's a big, you know, it's a big conflict, and it's tough because I'm I'm self centered, and children require, you know, when they're little, you know, constant attention. That means I don't get any attention. You know, and and with 2 alcohols now that means you know the 2 the the 2 biggest babies in the house aren't getting any attention.

You know? And being able to work through those things and still have time, you know, for us to go out and do things, and and be able to talk and and and work things out, took took a while to do, but it was it was really important. And to still be able to maintain, you know, a level of being active, in in Alcoholics Anonymous. You can't can't do it all, but, you know, talking to, you know, I talked to my sponsor a lot more after that. We had a daughter a couple years after that, And, essentially, you know, the the last few years of my sobriety, I I sponsor some people.

I go to 4 meetings a week. I, I have service commitments. I've done GSR, and, you know, all basically all the things that you can do. We've been active at our district level, and and all those things, what what they serve to do is what I've learned is that I need to be involved in whatever I'm doing. I need to be active and take suggestions and be open to hearing that maybe you should do this.

My sponsor is very much that way. He's he's a guy that that you come to him with something and he'll say, well, there's 3 or 4 possibilities here. You know, you can do this, you can do this, you can do this, you can do this. You know, think about it, you know, and then talk to me about it, and then we'll we'll figure out which one's the best one. And and that's been really important, to me, and that that he's always encouraged me to be involved and to do stuff, and and to, to be active in alcohols anonymous and to sponsor people and to to read the big book and, to to be involved in the meetings that I attend.

Without that, again, I'm the kind of guy that that I am going to I'm gonna shut off. I'm gonna close down. You know, when I have fear, I tend to slow down. You know, I don't okay. Let's back off.

Let's slow this thing down. Let's reassess. Let's over analyze. Let's look at it again. Oh, you know, we need to take action, we need to do things.

And with that, it's it's been a great blessing to me because I've managed to be a part of things that I never would have been. You know, I I sponsor a guy, because of of going some place that I didn't wanna go, you know, and and be in some place, just a fluke thing. You know, I run into this guy who I'd known, his dad's an AA, and and he ended up, you know, getting sober and and getting me as a sponsor. I started going to graduate school last year, which is something that, I wouldn't I wouldn't have thought to do, you know, 5 years ago because my sponsor said, you know, you ought to look at it, you know, go check it out. Go go look at the possibilities and see what it is and talk to me about it.

I went to went to Israel this summer, which is an incredible trip, because, this Al Anon guy I knew, he's been bugging me for years, and and and I talked to everybody about it, and they're like, yeah, go. That'll be great. You know, and and I'm the kind of guy that I just, you know, I don't want to take those kind of, I don't want to take risks. I want the safe course. I want the easier, softer way.

And whenever I take those kind of opportunities, to go and do something like that, the benefits of it are far greater than my perceived fears about it. Fundamentally, I'm a guy that, you know, when I start thinking about myself, I'm living in a van down by the river. That's where I'm gonna end up, and I'm gonna look just like Chris Farley. I'm gonna look just like I'm gonna eat Doritos. I'm gonna be playing a guitar with 3 strings on it.

You know? I'm gonna be I'm just gonna I'm gonna be unemployed, I'm not gonna have a family, no one is gonna like me, it's all over, penniless broke, living in a band down by the river. That's where I go. That's that's my gravitational that's one pole that I'm attracted to, and and alcoholics anonymous is coming. I've been sober 16 years, and it's it's vital to me because I see progress.

You go and you hear people talking about the progress that they're making in their lives or the difficulties that they're having in their lives, and some of the people, you know, you go around long enough and you hear stories about people that go through things that are just unbelievably difficult, and and and seeing people do that with grace and dignity gives me hope that I can do that as well. And without it, without that hope, you know again, I'm insulating, I'm hiding, I'm, you know, I'm in the van down by the river. And that's how it gets. And having a sponsor is critical because he's been sober a lot longer than me, and he knows he's been through all these things. And he knows, if he doesn't know, he knows somebody that knows.

And and I haven't really run across a situation where he didn't know, which is good. But being involved and and talking to people and going, you know, how are you doing? What's remembering what they said the last time. You know, these are all things that my sponsor told me when I was new. You know, go up to people, ask them what they're doing, ask them about themselves, remember what they said, and then ask them about it the next time.

You know, how did that turn out that you were going to do that? And I know that you don't care, but you are going to do it anyway. Yeah, you are right. And doing those kinds of things, allows me to become interdependent among everybody, you know, I don't feel like I'm dependent on AI, I feel like it's a place that I can go where, the world makes sense to me, you know, in Alcoholics Anonymous, and it provides me with with, impetus to to move forward and do things and take risks that that I wouldn't normally do. And it and it gives me hope that everything's gonna be okay no matter what happens.

Because I see it time and time and time again. I've seen a lot of people and worked with a lot of people that that for whatever reason, they couldn't get that that spark of hope that change is possible, that we can change, and that we can get better. And and only only God can can do that, and only only they can be open to it. I I sponsored a lot of people when I was new, and and and I I would I want I I thought that I could have the power to, you know, will that upon them, and and it never worked. Trying to make people get sober.

Probably didn't hurt them any, didn't hurt me any, but they weren't ready. And I I need to try to keep some of that openness and willingness in my own life by participating and being a part of and talking to people, allowing people to give me crap. You know, I I think that I've I've heard a lot of that going around here, and it's it's another connection to our group that you come around and people are going to give you some crap about stuff and hold you accountable to things. And nothing is better for my ego than to get a little smacked down every once in a while, you know, get with some older guys. And again, I think I'm done and I want to thank all of you and thank Scott for sharing, and thank you very much.