The 12 Traditions at Downtown Dartmouth Group in Dartmouth, Nova Scotia

And we have some special speakers here today, and they're gonna speak on the traditions. And I'd like to introduce them right now, Trent and Al. Oh, cool. Get me out of here. Hi, friends.

My name is Trent. I'm a recovered alcoholic. Hey, Trent. My name is Alf, and I'm a recovered alcoholic. Hi, Alf.

I am. We were asked to speak. Gary gave me a call, I guess, early in the week or the end of last week and asked us if our group would like to come in and share with this anniversary, which is a pretty impressive anniversary considering the the length of the group and how long it's been around, and and we kind of have lately talked a lot amongst ourselves and our group about the traditions and the lack of kind of talking in the rooms and where the traditions have gone from, I guess, when they were first brought to the to the program back in 1946, obviously just a few years before this group was founded. So we felt it necessary to talk a little bit about, I guess, some specific traditions, not all of them, but ones that we have seen in our experience, not necessarily kind of being lived the way they they were originally intended. And and we're trying to do things in our group and in our personal lives as recovered alcoholics, to push towards getting back to the way it once was.

We'll probably talk a little bit about what the the original meaning was behind the tradition, kind of where it's at now and and what we would hope it would be like and and what we're trying to do to make it the way it should be, at least according to what we interpret from the book. And again, this is our interpretation of of the way it was, and and we're taking, the original readings from Bill w when he first proposed the the, traditions to the to the program. And in some ways, I guess it's a little bit of a cry for help. I if someone here thinks that the program is exactly the way it was intended to be today, then you're probably not gonna like some of the stuff we had to say because I believe it's not. And I believe that, as an individual, it's my responsibility to try to to work the program as it was originally intended by Bill w and doctor Bob and the and the first one hundred, who laid it out in the book for us.

So, that being said, I'll qualify myself kinda quickly, and then maybe I'll often do the same, and we can start talking about some the specific traditions. I came into the program in 1993 at, the age of 23 and struggled in this program for 6 years. Now I take a lot of responsibility for that because even though I I did wanna quit drinking every time I came into these rooms, I didn't take the initiative to find people that would help me, by taking me through the work. Nobody came chasing after me either. And I chose to work with people who hadn't done the steps, who hadn't lived their lives based as their lives are in the big book as as I try to do today.

It's the best of my abilities. I'm not perfect by any stretch. But by not finding those type of people, I didn't stay sober. So in 1999, I did actually find, some people who were willing to help me out, and and, I spent a couple years bouncing around the program before I actually did get into the work. And once I did the work, my life changed and and, hopefully, forever.

So sober since 1999. And the last few years, I've I've lived my life as to the best of my ability as as it was laid out for me in the big book, and that means by helping other alcoholics. I figure if I have one hand in the hand of god and one hand in the hand of another AA member, I'll never have to drink again. And that was a promise made to me by somebody who helped me through the work, and it's been true so far. And that's what I try to translate to newcomers and people that I'm working with.

And, so so anyway so that's that that brings me here today. And now maybe Alf can kinda just qualify himself briefly, and then we can start talking about stuff. The first time that I I I saw a recovery, I was 22, and I was in, summer of 2 1,000. I was very much a a scared child in a in a adult's body. And I had a hard time reaching out to anybody, and I I didn't looking back, I didn't find anybody that really reached out for me.

I heard a lot of people's experience with with, drinking, but I didn't hear a lot of experience around the steps, the book, or anybody's experience with the tradition. Everything was talked about in a generality. And, I removed myself from Alcoholics Anonymous and, continue to, partake in my little adventures. And, I was so consumed with, with fear and hatred and a multitude of other flaws about 20 months ago that, I had 2 choices and, this was being the better choice of of the 2. And, ultimately I'm ecstatic that this was a choice because somebody pulled me aside 1 night in a meeting and said, where are you with your steps?

And I said, maybe somewhere around step 3. And they said, well, do you wanna get serious about it? And, I did from that point on. And they explained to me the nature of alcoholism and how the disease It's Itself. So I guess Alf will try to talk a little bit about, the the origins of the tradition, and then and then I'll kind of jump in, I think, with just a little bit of where it's at today and and maybe where we've gone from from the origin.

And and, so I'll we're probably gonna talk about 5, I think, first, and then, we're gonna try to cover as as many of these kind of 4 or 5 that we'd looked at. And it's, like, 5, 1, and 3, but we'll start with 5. Maybe Alfie can kinda just touch on a bit about where where it came from and what the the origins were according to what Bill w wrote and and what the big book tells us. I'm also gonna be reading, from the back of the book the long form of of the traditions as they were originally printed for us to, observe and follow. 5 states, each Alcoholics Anonymous group ought to be a spiritual entity, having but one primary purpose, that of carrying its message to the alcoholic who still suffers.

In the forward to the first edition, before the traditions were even thought of, it says that, the authors of the book, being those first 100 members of Alcoholics Anonymous, wrote this book precisely to show others exactly how they were covered, and that was the sole purpose of the book and each group that has developed since then. And, the the 2 cofounders who we identify with most, they dedicated their lives to the welfare of others. They saw the need for this. Otherwise, there's a good chance that many of us would have perished and that it is, for the most part, a life and death issue for all of us who earnestly seek something to help us. Saying that, freedom from alcohol is the sole purpose of of everything that is surrounding that tradition and all of our traditions.

And, you know, essentially, it allows us to suffer to move on from alcoholism and to experience life in, in our respective communities. And the message itself should be something that's grounded in hope, love, and recovery, and the need to continue to carry that on to others so that they can benefit the joys that we've come to know. For me, the I'm gonna just talking a bit about what it's like for me and what it was like for me when I was first in the program. I was one of those people that appeared to to have, I guess, a good program even though I didn't for probably the 1st 10 years, I guess you could say, the 1st 6 years where I struggled to get sober and then the first few years of of the continuous sobriety I enjoy today. I was one of those people you would hear at meetings, you know, talk about a bad day at work, talk about a fight with my girlfriend, or or I mean, you've heard at meetings people talk about anything that goes wrong, the fact that they can't find a job and they're discouraged and all these sort of things.

Is this part of the primary purpose, I guess, is the question, and and and according to the book, no, it's not. And that's where I struggle when I first came in because I didn't understand what it meant to be part of a group, that talked about the primary purpose. And and tradition 5 states that we need to carry this message. What is the message? Well, the message is they stated in in step 12 that having had a spiritual awakening as a result of these steps, we try to carry this and that's the message is is that we've had a spiritual awakening.

And and do I think that people's personal problems aren't aren't important? No. I don't. I know because I've dealt with them, and I've dealt with them outside of the rooms in in such a way. Because I was told at one point that this is not a place for what you're talking about.

Give me a call or talk to me after the meeting, and we'll and we'll find you some people to help you with your problems. And and thank god they did because I did. I I saw somebody on a semi regular basis. I actually ended up going to see a Catholic priest even though I'm Baptist. He was very open to seeing people of, different denominations, but he helped me with a lot of the things that these rooms were never helping me with, and it wasn't until I started to do that that I started to see some benefits in my life outside of this program.

I used to be one of those people that lived great in AA, but my life outside AA was an absolute mess. And that's not what this book tells us we're gonna be able to do. If we do the things that we're told in the book to do, then I should be able to do that. So, and I didn't learn that right away. You know, I don't believe that the personal problems have a place in our rooms.

I believe those are for after meetings, and that's what sponsorships are for, and that's what friends in the fellowship are for is that we all come together and help in those certain situations. But at the same time, I worry about a newcomer who comes in the room and and hears something that has absolutely nothing to do with alcoholism for an hour, and then they have to somehow figure out to get through that next 24 hours without taking a drink, and they haven't been able to to get the message, which at that time is that we've had a spiritual awakening, as a result of working the steps. And and, in my opinion, that's a big reason why a lot of people struggle in the program today is because they don't get that message clearly. And, you know, I'm I'm a huge reason why that was happening for people in my group is because I didn't understand what it took and what it meant. I don't believe external factors external factors can't make me drink because external factors can't control can affect an internal condition for me.

And it took me a while to realize that that the external factors of my life, which is all the things that happen outside of my disease, are never gonna make my disease all of a sudden start up again because that's an internal condition. The only solution I have for this spiritual disease is a spiritual solution, according to the book. And I know that most of the groups that I was involved with, that primary purpose seemed to be in limbo or it was somewhat lost, and and that was my responsibility as a member of that group to make sure that we understood that and and and tried to, as a group, get back to the primary purpose. And and, again, that's that's kind of where I feel at least a lot of the groups are at today, and and and our group is is just as bad, in the sense that we're not focusing primarily on that one purpose, and that's to carry that message. Turn it off.

Ultimately, being you know, addressing myself as a recovered person, having had a a spiritual experience as a result of doing what I was supposed to do, I I have a responsibility to to help other people now and, let them know that there is a solution to help them find a a loving God that will allow them to live their life as it should be, as it should be lived. And, you know, there there's there's many people that we come in contact with on a daily basis, and, we never know who's suffering inside or outside of the rooms, long term sobriety or short term sobriety. And, on a daily basis, I I kinda have to ask myself, do I remember what my primary responsibilities are? Am I aware of and do I understand the limitations of Alcoholics Anonymous? Am I willing to explain to a newcomer the limitations within Alcoholics Anonymous?

And do I help my group fulfill everything that it can to carry our message to those who still suffer? You know, it's it's I guess it's been my experience that awakening that spiritual entity within a group is a very difficult thing to do. There are barriers today that that weren't present when the when the program with Alcoholics Anonymous was founded, and and I came from one of those environments. You know, there's a lot of people who come in these rooms such as myself, who after years of struggling couldn't find sobriety, founded in a 10 month living 10 months in a recovery facility in Halifax, where I spent an inordinate amount of time going to group therapy sessions. And then I come into AA, and I treated it the same way as I was those times when we were sitting around a room, you know, with our counselor and and 13 residents talking about our problems.

It had absolutely nothing to do with alcohol. And and then I come into the rooms at AA, and I talk about stuff that's the exact same thing and and not realizing that the things I'm sharing have absolutely no bearing whatsoever on whether that newcomer is gonna take a drink or not, have absolutely nothing to do with the disease of oncology. So for me, that was a learning curve, I guess. I didn't know that, and I had a couple of people in the program who I absolutely hated the 1st few years I was around because all they ever talked about was the big book. All they ever talked about was doing the work.

If you weren't doing the work, shame on you, and I hated them for it. And they came up to me, well, one individual in particular, kinda famous for that sort of stuff in this area anyways, and just told me that, you you know, you're talking out of your ass, and what you're talking about has no bearing whatsoever on this disease. So shut up. Mhmm. I never went back to that meeting for a couple years.

You know, it was devastating to me, and and I didn't realize. And now these guys are the guys I call when I want some insight into the traditions or insight into the or insight into the concepts of the of the program or incepts in insight into the steps. An AA meeting was never designed to be a dumping ground for those sort of things, and I never understood that. And and and there's a huge difference between group therapy and and and an AA meeting. An AA meeting is a 12 step program, not a a self help program.

And you hear a lot of people today talk about AA being self help. Well, it's not. It's a 12 step. Big difference. So I understand now, which I didn't understand when I first came around, that the difference between the two is is significant and and that, a 12 step program focuses primarily on 12 steps, whereas a self help program focuses primarily on helping each other, talk about other things other than that one primary thing.

And, I guess it's a subtle difference in some ways, but in other ways, it's a huge difference. You know, I've I've watched too many friends go through the revolving door of kind of therapy AA and and not get sober. And and, it's my responsibility, to make sure that that doesn't happen by by when somebody does do that sort of stuff then pulling a newcomer aside at the end of the meeting and making sure they're aware of of, what's available to them through the big book and and taking them through that first part of the book and and explaining to them, allowing them to qualify themselves, as an alcoholic or not an alcoholic, and and helping them themselves, as an alcoholic or not an alcoholic and helping them understand what the rooms are for and what we can do here. And again as Alf said, the limitations of this program which is primarily one thing and one thing only, and from that stems other things, obviously. But, that's been my experience.

The, the first tradition is it was, written originally in the long form states, each member of Alcoholics Anonymous is but a small part of a great whole. AA must continue to live, or most of us will surely die. Hence, our common welfare comes first, but individual welfare follows closely afterward. And, you know, our our forefathers and mothers, foresaw that, true humility should be practiced, and they did practice that. And that can be seen through our basic text, Alcoholics Anonymous, and the following books that were written to assist us.

AA Comes of AIDS, talked about them, the good old timers, as Bill sees it. And also in the in the growth of our fellowship throughout the world over the past 70 years. And, it's it's solely relies on putting the welfare of our brothers and sisters first. And, all of our steps teach us, to allow ourselves to live selflessly or to try as hard as we can to live selflessly. And, especially since that is the the root of our troubles manifested in various forms of pride, fear, self seeking, pity, ignorance, and, you know, somebody else's welfare has to be my first concern.

Yeah. And I mean, in my opinion, at least for me when I came in, the tradition was misunderstood. Without putting the common welfare of a first, we will surely die. I mean, that's a pretty bold statement to make, and I saw it within myself. I kinda practice the the tone of the company line, so to speak, when I was in early recovery about, you know, meeting makers make it and and come and make coffee and do all those things that are asked, which I think are important things, very important things.

But they can't be the sole diet of an alcoholic, otherwise he will die. And that's what the book tells me. The book tells me that I need to do these things, as well as doing the work. And part of that work means becoming a part of the community of Alcoholics Anonymous. I guess well, there's probably nobody in this room that's been here for even a short period of time that hasn't known somebody who's died after coming into these rooms, died of the disease.

You know, and for various reasons. But I don't think that right now, I guess, we don't seem to have the strength to focus of the of our forefathers when it comes to that sort of stuff. And they focus primarily on the big book and through the book working with alcoholics through the steps and making sure that that individual, once they finish doing their steps, they then in turn went and helped another alcoholic. And and, I was one of those people again that that didn't understand that. And even after I did do the work originally and felt this, I mean, I had this, you know, I had the kind of the bells and whistles type experience.

I don't think they refer to it as the bells and whistles experience in the book, but, I had the same kind of experience that that I believe Bill w had. And and I didn't share it with anybody nor did I take anybody through the work. And about 4 or 5 months later, that that euphoric feeling was gone immediately. And the reason why was because I wasn't continuing to work 10, 11, and 12, which is what the book tells me I need to do. So I found myself back in despair, back in all the other things that I was before I had done the work.

Because to maintain that spiritual awakening, I need to then pass it on to somebody else. And and, you know, I I believe I've recovered. The book tells me I'm gonna recover. It says it in the first line, in the very first page of the book, this is how a 100 of us have recovered. But I only stay that way if I continue to do the work, and that's, you know, that's talking about tradition 1 in the sense that, I'm a small part of a great whole, but my my role is significant to me, and and I need to be a huge key to that in especially in my group and service through through every aspect of the program, but primarily helping another alcoholic.

I'm glad you touched on that, sir. When I'm in here or around another member or group of members, my personal desires have to be completely set aside. So if I'm working for me or to try and benefit some way, I don't only fail myself, but I fail the individuals that are either seeking help or, you know, believe in me. I believe in everybody that I come in contact with. I have a genuine love for them, and, that is the prime motivator behind Trent and myself sitting here today.

And to to to keep my spiritual condition, to ensure my recovery, and to enhance my my growth, my spiritual condition has to be maintained on a daily basis. And that condition isn't only found in my relationship with God, but it's my relationship with the people who vote me also. And when I give of myself, or anybody gives of themselves, not only does the individual benefit, but ultimately, the community of Alcoholics Anonymous as a whole benefits, and we take that away from these wounds into our respective lives. And the circle purse see circle of peace continues to gladden and back again to what do I have to ask myself on a daily basis. Am I a supportive, considerate, peacemaking, healing, mending, and integration member of my group.

Yeah. I'm glad you touched on the the community of alcoholics, and that's the way I like to think of it. I know it's a fellowship, and I know it's a program, but I like to think of it as a community of alcoholics because there's an expression, it takes a village to raise a child. And I think that as a community, if you think of ourselves as a community as well as a fellowship, and it allows us to, to focus on a newcomer as a group as opposed to an individual. And and, as important as it is for that group to go in and and have individual members go and approach that newcomer, our group at least, and and we're trying to do that sort of stuff.

We try to make it as newcomer friendly as possible. And, you know, I think that service to our fellows, service to our program will build the strength from within. And slowly but surely, we'll see a shift from where we are today to a community of of, I guess, partnerships, within our groups so that we all kind of, you know, I don't wanna make it sound like I don't think that this program is is is doing everything out of love and and care, and and, that's never been my intention. This has been my experience with the groups that I've been involved with. And not only that, but some of the groups that I visited.

And and, you know, you don't see a lot of groups doing the stuff like like, Gary and and Frank have done today and when it's when it comes to putting stuff like this on and and allowing other groups the opportunity to come in and share, and, and Gary may wanna have have proofed our stuff before we talked, but, nonetheless, here we are. But I think if you're a member of a group who who does not talk about the traditions and doesn't talk about the steps and doesn't talk about the big books, someone should take the initiative to embrace that part of our program and and make it a focus. That's what we had to do in our group, and and we've we've seem to have started to get members of our group, who then worked outside of our group, and that's slowly building that that, I guess, that common welfare that we have in our in our program, and and that helps us. I wish it was there when I first came around. I don't think it was.

I know as a matter of fact, I know it wasn't. The group that I helped start in the so sure is still around and still struggles with that part of of helping other people, and and that's because the common welfare is not the not a big thing with that group, and and it's unfortunate. Great people, loving people, love them to death, but it's just not working right there. So, anyways The long form of tradition 3 reads, our membership ought to include all who suffer from alcoholism. Hence, we may refuse none who wish to recover, nor at AA membership ever depend on money or conformity.

Any 2 or 3 alcoholics gathered together for say sobriety may call themselves an AA group, provided that, as a group, they have no other affiliation. Doctor Silkworth knew about alcoholism. And if if it wasn't for him explaining to Bill what alcoholism was, there there's a good chance that Bill might not understood enough about himself to explain it to Bob and everybody's life who has since been touched after that. And, you our name saying everything, Alcoholics Anonymous, I had to be qualified essentially to be here. So when I first came here, I had no idea what to be alcoholic was.

And I knew I had problems with alcohol, but I didn't understand physical cravings. I did not know what they were. I did not understand the mental obsession, and I had no idea what a, spiritual malady was. And, it it was very important for me to realize that. And, and I believe that they also saw a whole lot of importance that there'd be no barriers for the individual welcome in any way that I walk into.

Yeah. I mean, it it it talks about in the book, and a lot of times you'll hear in meetings that the only requirement is that basic thing, but there is a part of the book that actually tells us, this is how you can qualify yourself by reading this part of the book, then you can understand what the alcoholic is. You can understand the disease. You can understand the physical allergy, all those sort of things. And and, you know, this is gonna be a bone of contention for some people.

If you haven't liked what I said so far, you're certainly not gonna like this. But, I believe that there's people in the rooms of AA who cannot be helped by this program. You know? And and who am I to say that I'm not one of them? Right?

I mean, I believe that according to the big book, which talks about more about alcoholism, talks talks about the real alcoholic, and I believe I'm a real alcoholic. But should they be asked to like, a person has to qualify themselves, and a person who's gone through the work and understands the book needs to be able to show them where they can go in the book to qualify themselves. I don't think that sort of stuff is talked about regularly enough because people some people will struggle with the program, and and, I mean, I was one of them, and I didn't understand what was going on outside my life, and I didn't realize that that alcohol was not gonna be the only or alcoholism was not my only problem. But there's probably people in this room, not in this room, but in these rooms, that alcohol is not their problem, that they've got other problems, and they're a problem drinker, and then they come here, and they can't figure out why they can't get better. Well, maybe because the alcohol wasn't the big problem.

Maybe there's something else, and alcohol is a symptom of that. That. Maybe they're a problem drinker, as it talks about in the big book. Do I think they should stay? Yes.

Do I think they should help another alcoholic get sober? I hope to god not. Because the reason why is it states on page 34 of the big book that, whether such a person can quit upon a nonspiritual basis depends upon whether or not they have lost the ability to choose. I've heard people say they get up in the morning. They choose not to drink.

Well, according to my program and the book that I know, I can't choose. I I choose to drink. That's what I have always chosen to do. That's what the disease makes me choose. I can't choose not to drink because I will choose to drink.

I don't have that choice. My solution is a spiritual solution. And for someone who can come in and and not do the work, not do the steps, just go to meetings, and stay sober, well, if they try to help somebody get sober who needs that spiritual solution, they can't help them because they never needed the program the way that the individual who all of a sudden he's now trying to help needs it. And that's the responsibility of just me. That's all I'm gonna talk about.

It's my responsibility to go and find a new when he comes into that room and make sure that if somebody who doesn't do the work, doesn't do the steps, doesn't live the program the way that it was entitled, the way it was set up to be, tries to help that individual, then I need to step forward and try to help way it was set up to be, tries to help that individual, then I need to step forward and try to help that individual instead. Because I don't wanna see it for the 1st year. Just go to meetings. Well, what happens if he dies in 30 days because he's not started the work? Bill w did the work in 9 days.

Now why do I have I mean, I waited 4 years because somebody told me I didn't need to do it. I've heard people say do a step a year. Step a year? Like, I just it's beyond me how how somebody could carry that stuff around for 12 years, you know, or carry the men's around for 9 years. You know, alcohol saved my life.

When it got to a point where I couldn't I couldn't handle my life anymore, alcohol was the only thing that I turned to. Now I have this spiritual solution that I can turn to. If it wasn't for that spiritual solution, then then I only have two choices. I can I can either drink or I can work the program? So, you know, I I just it's it's a real sore spot for me because I was one of those people that that somebody tried to help who didn't know anything about the program, and I couldn't stay sober because I was trying to work a program that this person had worked, and it it worked for them.

Whether or not he was a real alcoholic, I don't know. But his program did not work for me, because all it meant I had to do was go to 2 meetings a week, and drive a newcomer to a meeting was the only other thing he wanted me to do. So, anyway, short spot. So obviously. Where should we be?

Don't know. Alf probably has some thoughts on that. There's there's something really cool about the the third tradition, and it's the fact that I'm a member when I say I am. But the cool part about membership is that I have responsibility. And, you know, us alcoholics are a very undisciplined law.

I believe that's how it says it in the book. And, I I need discipline all the time. I recently heard somebody speak, and they say that discipline's the horse they ride. And, it's, I'm gonna have to look into buying one of those horses. But, you know, in that responsibility, there's there's 2 things.

Do I understand alcoholism? And can I help somebody else understand it so that they can qualify themselves? And the other aspect is, am I willing to welcome anybody? Not prejudge them on their experiences races, creed, religion, or any other aspect of other lives? Just being spiritual beings, we be what we be, and we're meant to love one another.

Yeah. For me, it's it's my responsibility as a member who has done the work, to make sure we greet newcomers in the old way. And in the old way, it means is telling them that this is the work that they need to do. If they so qual if they go through the qualification area of the book and read about the disease and read about they may say to themselves, I'm an alcoholic. Well, then it's my responsibility to say to them, listen.

This it's time to get to work. This is what we need to do. Here's how we need to go about this. Here's the timeline that we need to to lay down for you so you can get this work done. Desperation of a drowning man, you know, and and yeah.

And I've heard it said before, the recuperative power of the alcoholic ego and and that's been my experience. I think, you know, I think, you know, I think, you know, I think, you know, I think, you know, I think, you know, I think, you know, I think, you know, I think, you know? And and and that's been my experience. I think if I as a member of this, you know, I I have to having had the spiritual awakening, it's my absolute duty to relay that as much as possible. I don't hear it enough in meetings, and I and I certainly try to be a person who goes to a meeting and and talks about the message of hope and talks about the spiritual awakening and talks about the experiences that I've had, and I'm, I guess, in some ways, I'm fortunate.

I struggle in the program for 6 years, couldn't get more than 9 months. Then I got in the program and was there for 3 and a half, 4 years without doing the work, but kinda staying sober, but still dying inside because the internal condition had never been worked on. And then the last few years after having done the work so I've experienced every aspect this program in some way or another, and and and, I definitely prefer today's to the others. No doubt about it. But it's, you know, I've worked with people who haven't stayed sober, And I can only do what I can do, and that's to show them exactly what they need to do.

And and usually what happens is they stop working 10, 11, 12. And, you know, the selfishness is the first thing to come back, and my thought is is that as long as I'm still helping somebody and he's willing to come back to me, you know, I can help him. But if I'm helping somebody, then I'll never need to drink again. And that was a promise made to me by the guy that helped me through my work, and and, he's been right so far. So I don't necessarily think that there's, a shortage of people who have done the work, but there may be a shortage of people who have done the work and and are actually out helping other peoples walk through the work, you know, because that's my absolute duty as a member of this program.

Tells me that that's united. That is my responsibility. It doesn't just mean to give them my phone number and then not do anything about it. It means I absolutely have to walk them through the work, you know, obviously, as willing as they as they ought to go through it. And some people don't wanna do the work.

I know lots of people who who get into certain situations, and as soon as you tell them what they need to do, they find somebody else. And that's their choice. Yeah. So there's only so much we can do. I think we're gonna let's how are we doing for time?

Probably got another I think probably one more. Okay. Number 12 is the last one that, I think we agreed that we'd touch on if we had time. The long form of this tradition states, and finally, we of Alcoholics Anonymous believe that the principle of anonymity has an immense spiritual significance. It reminds us that we are to place principles before personalities, that we are actually to practice a genuine humility.

This to the end that our great blessings may never spoil us, that we shall forever live in thankful contemplation of him who presides over us all. I read an article, recently that was, wrote by Bill w, and it was shortly followed the initial presentation traditions. And, one of the things that stood out most of my mind is that we must at all cost do whatever we have to to to, preserve our unity. And, there's a great value in anonymity to bring us all to the same level, that we are equals and should be treated as such. And, I think it's important also to, realize that humility must be placed before success and that our unity placed before individual fame.

And, it's it's it's been a wonderful experience for me to not feel inferior or superior to any other person. My brothers and my sisters are around me, good or bad, and that if somebody should reach out their hand, I can be there for them. And if these if these principles are followed, there can be a fostering of sound growth and development, and that's where we'll find our spirit of unity. It's I'll just relay a little situation that I had. And this was back before I got sober, obviously.

I had a sponsor down the South Shore. When it was first name, I knew where it worked. I knew his first initial. And, I went out and drank, and and I couldn't get ahold of him. The only way I knew how to get ahold of him was to call I knew he worked at a Shoppers.

But at that time, there was, what, 4 Shoppers in Bridgewater, I think. And so I'm calling around Shoppers trying to to get ahold of this guy. And finally, I did get ahold of him, and he thought of that. I mean, it wasn't like I was calling before I drank anyways. But if the situation was that that I was trying to get ahold of my sponsor, and it's my fault, obviously.

He had given me all the information, but I didn't, you know, I didn't have it at the time or whatnot, but I guess what I'm trying to say is, well, I probably doctor Bob said it really well in, the good old timers. There's 2 ways to break the tradition of of anonymity, and that's 1, to to release your name at the level of press, radio, and film, obviously. And the other one is by using only your given name. You violate the tradition, because we're meant to remain so anonymous that not even members of the of the program can find you is a direct violation of that tradition according to one of the one of the founders. And and I'm talking about inside the rooms, not outside the rooms.

You don't need to tell any of that. That's that's the judgment call on people's, I mean, I hand out my business card to people who want my phone number, and it's not because it's it's easier for me to hand out a business card, and they're like, oh, your last name's on it. I'm like, I don't care. You know, it doesn't make a difference to me. Now some people, obviously, that's a little bit more of a personal issue.

Again, it's a judgment call. But how many in here can can can easily pick up a phone book and get a hold of a handful of members by knowing their last name? You know? And I'm just relaying again what what doctor Bob said and and what I've experienced because for me, it did actually happen, in the sense that I couldn't find anybody. And I'm sure a lot of people here have tried to get ahold of a member, only know their first name.

You know? And, I mean, how many Bob m's or Dave s's or you know what I mean? I mean, it's nearly impossible. You gotta call 3 or 4 members. You know Dave.

Which Dave do you mean? You know Dave from North End Group. Oh, yeah. I know that Dave. Here's his phone number.

But, I mean, that sort of stuff shouldn't happen. But, again, it's it's, it's an important tradition, and it's one that needs to be understood for sure. And I I think this is gonna be more an in in closing. With with my attitude and my approach with people, I have come to understand that I've rubbed people the wrong way with with my approach around this, and, I hope that it's understood that this is truly from the heart. And when when Trent and I sit up here this afternoon as trying to sit.

This is very much a a cry for help. This is this is something that we love, and our passion for other people is so great that, you know, we'd like to have as many people hop on board the train with us as possible. So this train just can't stop running. So too many lives have been saved because of it. And, for for anybody who earnestly seeks freedom from alcohol our love, we hope, will spread to them, and they will be able to find it easier than than Trent and I have.

And that their recovery will be so solid, and their relationships that they have and will have in the future will continue to grow. I don't know. It's it's just a wonderful experience. Yeah. And I mean, I'll echo those statements.

You know, this is by no way do I ever consider myself to be above anything or anyone, because I was guilty of of the majority of the stuff and still am at times. Do I think it's important to say the stuff that some of the stuff we've said? Yeah. I do. Do I do I do I like people who like me?

Yeah. I do. But at the cost of not saying the things that need to be said, no. Too important. It's funny because everybody here knows that they've thought the things or said the things, but not said them in front of an open forum in in the group and, especially a lot of the older old timers, I should say, who have been around a long time and have seen that shift in the program go from what once was a pretty basic program.