12th step and Sponsorship Workshop in Ponca City, OK

My name is Chris Rayburn. I'm a recovered alcoholic. Good food. But it's wait. What what of a weird deal is this to have come to Oak middle of Oklahoma for heaven's sakes to get red beans and rice cooked the way they're supposed to be cooked.

What is up with that? As a professional chef for years, I have ruined more batches of red beans and rice trying to make get, you know, the it's good stuff. I got the recipe and you can't have it. I, one of the in in therapy, there's a because I'm a master at having laid on a 1000000 couches. There's a there's an expression that, what did you hear me say?

You with us? Good good therapeutic tool, you know, because a lot of times when I say, you hear exactly what you wanna hear and then walk out the door with it. It's like sometimes we do that in relationships, you know. It's like it's like like, you know, I'll go home and say something to Patty, my wife, about maybe a little pokey pokey and she'll say, well, you know, just a minute. And, you know, of course, what I heard her say was I ain't interested.

What she said was just a minute. You you you with me? It's like what what goes in here doesn't exactly compute sometimes by the time it comes out there. That's why this book is so important. You know, in the early days of Alcoholics Anonymous, we had you ever done that little that little, that little parlor trick?

It used to be a little party game where you'd whisper something to little brother over here and it it go back around, you know, by the time it gets back over here, it's like 2 different things. Everybody laughs and has a good time. That's what Alpolis Anonymous was was headed for. And we started getting these things all back to to to the center with this thing called the big book of Alpocalypse anonymous. Earlier in the little talk we did earlier, I said this about these issues.

My external will have these little issue pins that you get some of you guys will snag after this is over. I'll stick them out right after because it distracts the daylights out of me when you're coming and picking it up and I'm trying to speak. So I'll wait a little after and I'll give it to you and all that printed literature you guys can take home. But the little issue guy, you know, has this little shape and he's got these little x's on the outside to to to sort of signify the little issues that we all have in our life. Does anybody in here not have some issues that are driving them crazy tonight?

I mean, all of us in this world have got problems. All of us have got stuff that's eating us. You go with us? But that's external. And this little little guy's got a little place on the inside.

I got issue woman too. Some of you ladies, you know, make sure you The Issue Woman's the one with the little long hair. She all snagged out. It's got Issue Woman on her. It got Issue Woman on her and and it's got a little spot in the center where her little heart is.

Guys, the the the problem with alcoholism and drug addiction is that we're dying of a disease that's that's rooted in a thing called the spiritual malady. I am not saying tonight, nor have I ever said from the podium, nor will I ever say that your issues are not important. Your issues are extremely important. And I think great therapy and some good sponsorship and some good, you know, men and women in this fellowship after a meeting, before a meeting, could work through that stuff and help me get back on on square 1. You with us?

My only deal is is that I was talking to a nice nice gentleman I just I just got to meet, about, treatment centers and and my philosophy on treatment centers. I love treatment centers. I don't ever think that I'm knocking treatment centers. I just I just think that history shows us that most treatment centers have spent years treating external circumstances. We talk about triggers.

We talk about the divorce, the the abuse, this, that, and the other. And then we feel great because we've dealt with some of that and we walk off campus and fall flat on our ass because the internal condition never got treated. Can y'all get down with that? That's all I'm trying to say. I I have a huge proponent.

I think if you're early in recovery and you're not seeing a therapist, you're you're making a mistake. It's a tremendous opportunity to look at some issues that we don't need to be talking about in AA. And one of my biggest soap boxes that I get on is, is when people come to AA using AA as a dumping ground for that crap. It's gotta stop. I don't know.

I I can't stop it. I don't think anything I'm gonna say from the podium is gonna stop it, but I think it ought to make all of us think about what we're doing when we do it. It. Our primary purpose is to carry the message of hope to the newcomer. Our primary purpose is not to fix that drunk.

Can y'all get down with that? If I could fix you, I would have fixed you a long time ago. If I could fix myself, for heaven's sakes, I'd have been well a lot long, long before 1987. Makes sense? Therapy is the best.

I just you know, I call it synonymous. I've said it from a 1000000 podiums. I think what we need is a lot more a lot more spiritual mentors and a lot fewer junior therapists. No? I'm gonna talk about it Sunday night.

One of the problems that we have in Alcoholics Anonymous I got these statistics this week. I just my friend, Cliff sent them to me from Dallas. In Dallas and larger inter groups, Dallas and Houston, they they track chip sales. The little desired chips, 1 month chip, 2 month chips, year of chips, they track those sales every year. It's been fascinating.

I've got them since 93, and you ought to see the trend in this in this chip sale business. This is not scientific. I'm not trying to impress anybody here. It's you certainly can't win any arguments with this, but I think it's an interesting observation. Last year in Dallas, Texas, they sold 19,698 Desire Chips.

You with us? That was a 9% decrease from the year before, which means we got a lot less people picking up Desire Chips, period. But we had nearly 20,000 people picking up desire chips. One month chips. They only sold 1,582, 1 month chips.

That's 8 8%. 1 year chips. I can go down the whole list. I won't take time to do it. 1 year chips, 1,385, only 7%.

Just don't drink. Go to meetings. Guys, you look in the forward with the second edition and look at our success rates there. They they're talking about between 65 and 75 percent of the people getting sober in 1955. We had areas of this country you can go to any archive from New York on down, and they'll show you areas of the United States where we had nearly a 100% success rate.

And right now in the United States, we're looking in one of the largest cities in in, Texas at 7% success rate. God, I don't know how you you that it sucks. That's not good. So what's the problem? We started out this talk this this afternoon about this.

The problem is is sponsorship. The problem is this poor sponsorship. We we and I all of us have many of us have dropped the ball because, for whatever reason, we've stopped teaching the newcomer what they need to do to get sober. We've gotten so concerned with what everybody's gonna think that we've just walked completely away from this whole thing on on, sponsorship. What's my what's my what's my job as a sponsor?

I'm gonna get some of this stuff out of the way real quick. Okay. The boogie. I get that. Okay.

Did I mention those red beans and rice? Well, never mind. Those that was the best. There's a difference. When I speak, when we do these workshops.

There's a difference between, and I think some confusion on our fellowships, with sponsorship and 12 step work. Y'all with this? Huge difference. Sponsorship is the responsibility that a man or woman takes in this fellowship to take one of the one of the the newcomers, the proteges, through the work. 12 step work happens every day.

Y'all with us? There's a huge difference. These guys that were coming in early today, busting their butt hauling food and making coffee and cleaning this place up and making sure that I got picked up from the airport. Thank you. I've been stranded more than once.

These these cats are doing 12 step work. Anything that allows us to carry the message of hope is 12 step work. It's good stuff. And this is the stuff that I absolutely and firmly believe that a newcomer must get involved in very rapidly or they're not gonna stay sober. Makes sense?

Different in sponsorship. Sponsorship, you can't give away what you don't have. If you've not had a spiritual experience as a result of working the steps, how can you show him how to have a spiritual experience? Makes sense? I mean, I I gotta tell you guys, we got a fellowship full of people that have not had spiritual experiences out there trying to sponsor people.

And it and it's gotta stop because what kind of message is being carried? I hear people still to this day. I don't hear it as often now as I do maybe because of the circles I travel in, people know that they're gonna get eaten if they say it. But in a meeting, talk about this powerlessness business. We talked about it earlier.

Oh, I'm just powerless. I'm powerless over people, places, and things. Anybody hear that in in in the meetings? It needs to stop. Where where is it at?

It's a lie. I am not powerless over people, places, and things. Again, how can we we draw people to our fellowship if all we wanna do is is is hit on this powerlessness piece? I I I'm gonna say it again. You got a guy out there freezing his butt off down here on the street, drunk, and you're gonna bring him into a room and tell him he's powerless over people, places, and things.

It's like, no no kidding. This is nuts. As a result of working the steps, my book says, on page 45, it says, lack of power, that's the dilemma. Well, how are we gonna get some power? Well, that's exactly what these this book is about.

Its its its main focus is to enable us to get connected to a power greater than ourselves that will solve, quote, unquote, all our problem. Not not just drinking and drugging, it's nonsense stuff, but problems in our relationships, problems around money, problems around sex, problems around lots of stuff out there that we have problems with. I sit in these meetings and listen to people who wanna come up with these little chicken shit one liners and and and and, like like like think, think, think. Easy does it. What's this easy does it stuff?

Excuse me a minute, but what's this easy does it stuff? You know where it comes from? It's in a chapter in the back of the book. Easy does it. Take it in context.

The way the book says it is is talking about in our relationships with our family. Take it easy with your family, buddy. You you scolded them for years. Easy does it. But we wanna take it out of context.

Little guy comes comes in and he's all excited about the work. I heard the speaker and I'm ready. I wanna go do my forceps. I wanna get this done. Hey, buddy.

Easy does it. Look at the plaque on the wall. Easy does it. Oh, I guess so. Just take your time.

Chill out. What's the truth? The truth is that the cat he was talking to didn't wanna take the time to work with the guy. That's the truth. You're gonna get a good guy that's all excited, and then you wanna turn around and say something stupid like, oh, oh, boy.

You should've seen Jim last night. He was really on a pink cloud. You don't talk about pink clouds to me. There's no such thing. It's it's it's a crappy expression and it denigrates a thing called god's grace.

Pink cloud. You see, guys, all of us in this room when we came here, I think if you look back, in the times that I was sober or trying to get sober, I think I had a little window. I could experience some times when when I would stop drinking and one day at a time, immediately my body starts to heal and I start to feel better. You with me? And then I've got this little window of opportunity to kick butt, take names, finish this work, and have a genuine thing called a spiritual experience.

But I'm having little awakenings all every day. New awakenings coming in, seeing somebody cool, get a chip, or getting some hope, you know. And and and for old timer or a new timer to look down their nose at that person and say that they're on a pink cloud, I think it's damn disrespectful. You ought to be doing whatever you can do to encourage them to kick butt and take names and get out there and continue to do the work. Because the window is not we all know the window is not gonna stay open very long.

Life, the the spiritual malady will return. The pain of staying sober will outweigh the benefits. You will get caught in what the book talks about a mental blank spot, and you'll go back out and bring some alcohol or smoke some crack cocaine or do whatever the heck you're doing. We've got a window to get them. Y'all under y'all understand that?

Bill Wilson, if you read the stories, Bill Wilson was crystal clear on this. Let me let me draw something with you here. This thing about 12 step business, on page 17, if you got your little books, on page 17, it's one of my favorite, paragraphs in the book. My my home group in Ingram, Texas is called Ingram Solution Group. That name was taken from this page right here.

The feeling middle paragraph. I'm gonna read down. The feeling of having shared in a common peril is one element in the powerful cement that binds us. Mark that little word 1. It's one element.

Y'all with us? Our war stories, one element in the powerful cement that binds us. But that in itself would never have held us together as we are now joined. The tremendous fact for every one of us is that we have discovered a common solution. A common solution.

We have a way out of which we can absolutely agree and upon which we can join in brotherly harmonious action. This is the great news this book carries to those who suffer from alcoholism. One solution, folks. This is it. Twelve steps.

That's the message. That's why we're here. Primary purpose. We are not here to fix your other problems. God fixes your other problems.

Most controversial stuff I talk about from the podium. I'm gonna say it and get out. Most controversial stuff I talk about. Please. Everybody in here, including myself, has come into a meeting and dumped.

I just need a place to share. I just I need to get something off my chest. Y'all with us? Then everybody else spends the rest of the hour cleaning it up. You're with me?

Everybody. Now then, you'll stick with the analogy. Stick with the analogy. Not very nice after that nice meal, but it's pretty pretty do I feel better having just purged? Yes.

Much better. Thank you. So what? We're we're we're we're buying into this idea that that thing I had to talk about was what was causing me to drink. We talked about it in the first hour we did this.

You guys drank and drugged when things were going great in your life. You drank and drugged when things were going crappy in your life. So why is it that we insist on using our AA meetings as dumping grounds, as junior therapy sessions for our problems? Big books got clear a great line in here. I wanna show I wanna show it to you.

On page, I've written it down, 156, I think. Hoot. 159. Sorry. I knew it was there.

The little gremlins moved it again. Bottom of the page, it says, in addition to the casual gatherings they're talking about the a meetings in the early days of alcohol. In addition to these casual gatherings, it became customary to set us set apart 1 night a week to be intended for anyone or anyone interested in the spiritual way of That's an open meaning. Aside from the fellowship and sociability, the prime object was to provide a time and a place where new people might bring their problems. You're with us?

I think this is a great idea. Why do we do it? Well, we put it on the schedules and have one night a week where all the new newcomers can come and and we can help them with all their little problems. I think it's a, a stupendous idea. We could call it PM meetings, pissers and moaners meetings.

I think it would be a great idea. But my question to you my question to you is why is it that we have to do it every single meeting? I'll say something I didn't say earlier and I need to say. I don't think the problem is the personalities in this fellowship. I got a lot of cats that wanna come talk about this person and that person doing it, this person, that person.

The reason they're doing it is because the formats allow them to do it. Y'all with us? You got formats that start with who's got the problem in an open discussion meeting. One of the sad things is in the in the city of Dallas, where I just quoted those statistics from, we got, you know, the low, low, low success rates. If you'll also look in the meeting schedules, those meeting schedules, we've got over 1500 meetings in the Dallas Fort Worth area a week.

Y'all with us? 1500 meetings a week. That's a lot of dadgum AA meetings. Y'all with us? 98% of those meetings are open discussion meetings.

Y'all with me? If you want a literature based meeting, we've got 20, 25, last count, 25 literature based meetings in the entire Dallas Fort Worth Metroplex. So it means if you wanna come study about the big book and learn how to have a spiritual experience, you got 25 chances a week to do it. If you wanna go talk about the stupid divorce again, or your kids, or the doctors, or anything else you wanna talk about, you've got 1500 chances a week to do it. That's unbelievable.

And we wonder why nobody's getting sober. Do I I'm gonna say it again. Do I think that stuff needs to be talked about? Absolutely. Absolutely.

That's why we come early before the meeting. That's why we stay late. I guarantee a bunch of us will be up after this meeting down at some what was it? Denny's? It's not Denny's here.

What is it? Perkins. What the heck? You know, we're gonna end up at the coffee shop talking trash, helping each other, doing whatever we can do. You know what I mean?

That's where that that's the meeting after the meeting. Let's talk about that stuff. But in the meeting, folks, why can't we change our formats around and do literature based meetings? The format that we use at home is so simple, it's not even funny. In our preamble, it says, we are not a dumping ground for your problems.

Please feel free to come before and after the meeting if you just need to talk. But while we're here in this meeting, please try to talk about the topic being presented out of the first 164 pages. And, of course, and a lot of this stuff applies to our daily life and we're gonna bring some of that into it. It makes for a great meaning, but we're gonna stay focused on the solution, folks. We don't have time to mess with this.

I I I I'm a firm believer in that. Remember in the front of the book in Bill's story, Eddie, that a little 12 step call. Eddie's, actually just a few weeks sober. He's he's got a he's got I've seen archival material to refute this. It's it's it's it's I've never seen it longer than about 3 months of sobriety that this guy's got.

He was brand spanking. A couple of months as as the other ones that I see, Evie was sober. You know, Roland Hazard had given him the message and sponsored him. Roland had gone to Carl Jung y'all know the story. In the early thirties trying to get well, couldn't get well, sitting with the foremost psychiatrist trying to get well.

Right? And he spent a year in psychoanalysis, comes back to the United States and immediately gets drunk, you know, surprise, you know. And so he gets loaded. He he gets back in touch with Carl Jung and Carl Jung tells him, he said the story's in the book. Buddy, what happened?

I just spent a year with you, spending all this time and money and now I I'm not well. I I'm I'm still obsessing about alcohol. He said, Buddy, what I've been trying to do with you is trying to help you have a thing called a spiritual experience. And he explains what he was trying to do. Evie gets tied up with Oxford Movement there in New York and has a spiritual experience.

Period. You with us? He gets hold of of, of, that was Roland Haswood that comes back. He gets in touch with Eby and this Evie, this little skinny guy, the story is that it's documented, it's not in the book, but in the archives, he takes Evie to his house and spends the next 2 weeks working him through the 12 steps. Evie has a spiritual experience and then in a couple of months, he goes and finds who?

Bill Wilson. Now you're with me? Okay. So in the story, in Bill's story, what does it say? Evie goes and finds Bill Wilson and he's in his kitchen.

Right? He's sitting down and and Bill Wilson's got his little gin and he's ready to sit there and listen to this cat. And and what does Evie do? Evie doesn't go and says, I got God jammed the book of his He didn't we didn't have a big book then and he had the Bible with him. He said, he didn't talk about religion.

He didn't talk about anything. He they shared some war stories. They shared some some stories about what was going on in their life. Y'all with me? And then, y'all, I've heard me do this and how and then as they got this identification thing going, and then any fishermen in here?

You know what happens when you get a little fisherman and and you get a little limble? You you set the hook. Right? And that's exactly what Evie did to Bill. He pulled on that son of a gun and told him about God.

You're with us? But he had to get him on the line first, and he did that by telling him some war stories. You'll follow us? This is what we call a classic 12 step call. Classic 12 step call.

New guy, doesn't understand what's going on. Heavy. Pretty cool. Bill Wilson gets out and tries to preach for 6 months, evangelizing, gonna get saved, gonna gonna heal the drunks, you know. Doesn't get anybody on that line.

Right? He's in Akron, Ohio, right, in a business deal that's gone sour and and he ends up because of the circumstances with with, doctor Bob, he sits there in that little guest house with doctor Bob's and the first thing he does with doctor Bob is he starts sharing some war stories. He starts telling him about his life and about how tough it was. He he couldn't stop drinking and this is what happened to him. You with us?

He he start going and then with it? Click click click click click click. And he sets the hook and he tells him, he it's about God. You're with us? Doctor Bob eventually, like their one more little relapsing poo, decides that he wants to steal, gets gets involved, works the steps in a couple of weeks, gets sober.

You with me? They go find alcoholic number 3 in town's hospital. They go catch this guy, Bill D, Bill Dodson, the A number 3, he's a lawyer. They go snag his butt. What is the first thing they do?

Guys in the bed, you know, the classic picture that there it is right there on the on the wall like that. Bill Wilson, doctor Bob, and and Bill d sitting on the bed. Right? What's he do? They tell him some war stories.

Boy, you guys really know what you're talking about here. I see that you know where I'm coming from. Click click click click click click click. They set the hook, then they tell them about God. They tell them about the steps.

You're with us? Classic 12 step calls. With me? No, you're not. No, you're not.

So we got an AA meeting going here. Right, guys? Tuesday night, open discussion, newcomer walks in. You with us? Newcomer.

We've seen him up here a 1000 times. In and out, in and out, picking up chips. Hey, John. How are you doing? Going good.

Same stuff. We've seen him a 1000 times. You with us? Oh, we got a new guy in here, John. He's not new.

He's been around the fellowship for years. So what are we gonna do? We're gonna bore him to tears. I'm working on the cussing, guys. Give me a break.

We're gonna bore him to tears telling him some more war stories. You with us? Stop it. We've already got him hooked. He's here.

Let's share some hope with the cat. Huge difference. Twelve step calls were intended to be made. This format, war story solution, was was formatted to get somebody that was brand new in the fellowship. Somebody that's been in the fellowship is having trouble staying sober.

You need to raise the bottom up a little bit, guys. You need to stop talking to him like he's a brand new newcomer, and you need to start giving him some hope. We are killing people in this fellowship, and this is one of the worst things that we do with the guys we sponsor. We don't explain this to them. People come into these meetings and they wanna start telling their words.

Here's the deal. You got this professional woman up here. Right? I've been picking on her all night. I'll just keep doing it.

But so the the room's full of you. You're professional women and and and and you come in, you're all busted up, you don't feel good, and you're detoxing, and you and you somebody re referred you to Alcoholics Anonymous. You with me? So you're here. Right?

So the first thing that we wanna do you know about AA, but but here. First thing we do is well, we got a first step meet and go on here. We got a newcomer, so let's all go around and tell our stories. Unbelievable. Unbelievable.

That's great. That's great. So we start over on this side of the room. Y'all heard me do this a 1000 times. Start on this side of the room and he tells about his DWI.

This guy says, Well, you think that's something? I had 3 DWIs. You with us? This guy, hold Chris O' back up there. I not only had 3 DWIs, I shot 2 people.

And it becomes obvious to the newcomer because it happened to me that what we're trying to do is just outdo each other. You with us? By the time we go get over here, we got a mass murdering, child molesting marauder over here, you know, and it's like, oh, this is great. And I'm listening to this stuff, and I'm listening to check. I I'm standing up in front of the deal telling you about my dumpster days.

Right? And she said to me, she don't god. Never had a DWI. I've never eaten out of a dumpster. I've never robbed a liquor store.

I have not, nor do I plan on shopping anybody up. Check. Check. Check. I am not one of you.

That's why we have a tough time with professionals in these fellowships. That's why we have an almost impossible time keeping young adults in these fellowships because we got too many people they believe. The only message we've got is our stories. The book said on page 17, we got one element of the cement is the story. Alright?

We've heard your story. Now can we go to the solution? You know why you wanna stay on the story so much? Because you don't have the solution yet. It drives me crazy when we come into the meetings and all we wanna do is talk about the problem.

The cat's coming to my hospital and I asked them point blank, said, buddy, you you said you went to AA. How come you didn't stick? It's worked for a gazillions of us, walked in the door, got sober. How come it didn't work for you? I could not stand the whining in the meetings and the war stories, And we're not supposed to be doing either one of them in our meetings.

What is wrong with carrying the message of hope like the book outlined? What is wrong with talking about the about the the spiritual experience? You guys come up after these meetings about a 100 and and buttonholed me up against the corner. Well, you think every AA meeting ought to be a pep rally? Absolutely.

Absolutely. You read the archives and what those early meetings were about. They brought the Bible in there. They brought they sang hymns. They they they they bore witness to God's power.

Isn't that what the 3rd step prayer asked us to do? 3rd step prayer asked us to bear witness to God's power. Has god made your life at all easier today as a result of being sober? Even in a small way, you may still have bills and trouble at home and all this, but is there anything good that you can be grateful about? Do you think it'd be too much trouble to share that with a poor newcomer that has walked in the door absolutely hopeless or do you think it's your god given right to sit here and piss and moan about your I'm just fixing to speak in tongues.

I gotta stop. I freaked me out. I know I know I know. Somewhere along the line that we've got this idea that we can come into AA and share anything we want, and that is just I don't know where it came from, but that is not the truth. We have a job.

We have a we have absolute marching orders right here. Show the newcomer. Give him some hope. Because isn't that isn't that what we're selling here? Isn't that what we're trying to convey to the newcomer?

Guys, I'm gonna tell you something. I came in to Alcoholics Anonymous in 1987. I'm a committed with the rest of those pills at home and a stashed bottle of booze to finish the job. And I walked in that room and and as God would have it, I landed in a room full of people that loved me enough to tell me the truth and to share hope with me. There's there's no chapter in the back of this book called into scare.

Y'all with us? Why do we do that? You get a new, you get an AA meeting and you get a new, a newcomer. 19 year old kid comes in. 18 year old kid comes in.

Been shooting dope everywhere, drinking since he was 16. The real McCoy. I mean, I'm talking about the the real real McCoy. And he comes and he sits in this meeting, and you got some idiot says, buddy, you don't wanna end up like me, do you? I mean, I know your heart's in the right place, but, I mean, could could you just think about it and try to come up with something a little more stupid to say?

Do you think the first second that the kid is gonna believe that he will ever become like us? I didn't believe any of those stupid war stories. The book said on page 24, the page that we were on earlier, get my glasses on straight. Book says on page 24, after we were talking about that power of choice, the us not having the power of choice, the almost certain consequences that follow taking even a glass of beer do not crowd in your mind to deter us. If these thoughts occur, which tells me they may not, they are hazy and rarely supplanted with the old bread bear idea that this time we're gonna handle ourselves with like other people.

There's the complete failure of the kind of defense that keeps one from putting his hand on a hot stove. You with us? Guys, I know we need to keep our our experience alive in our head. I don't wanna ever forget the desperation I felt that that night that Thursday night when when I tried to commit suicide. I don't wanna ever forget how how how much I hurt.

But, you know, when I walked into that room the next day, November 13th, Friday 13th, 1987, the hideous 4 horsemen were on my ass. Terror, bewilderment, frustration, and despair were breathing down my neck. I didn't need any more of your scary stories. I knew I was gonna die. I needed some hope.

I needed some hope. I needed somebody to tell me that I could wake up within a few days and have the obsession to drink lifted from me. I needed to know that I could not I wouldn't have to spend the rest of my life keeping myself, white knuckle, away from alcohol. But for 7 years, nobody bothered to tell me that. Well, you know, one day at a time, it's not easy.

We got a lot of people around this fellowship that have never worked the steps, folks. A lot of people around this fellowship that don't know God. Don't understand the difference. We got a lot of people that wanna talk about and teach us about god. I know about god.

I've known about god all my life. I need to know god. There's a huge difference. Y'all understand that? Out there smoking a cigar, feeling that great cold air, watching that mist come down.

Buddy, let me tell you, sitting in a room full of you guys, watching you share your life with me, that's God. You can sit and read all day long. Self knowledge, the book says, avails us nothing. That's why treatment centers kill so many people. How much knowledge can we shove in your face in 30 days?

But you see, page 24 tells us we're not gonna remember any of that knowledge when the obsession to use returns, I'm gonna go use. I'm gonna go back to the dope dealer. I'm gonna go back and get some alcohol because that's what we do. Folks, here's the here's the bottom line. Alcohol is not Chris Ramer's problem.

Cocaine was not Chris Ramer's problem. The pills were not Chris Ramer's problem. That stuff was Chris Ramer's solution. When I take that stuff into my system, I get better, not worse. As the disease begins to progress and I lose more and more control, it becomes quite problematic and it starts affecting my health and I need to stop and then find I can't stop, but it will always be my solution.

You put alcohol in me, But page 52 says, there's the thing called the bedevilments. It says, we were having trouble in personal relationships. You with me? Trouble making a living. Pray to misery and depression.

Unhappy. Un you're with us? You you give me a drink and ask me those questions. Hey, Chris. You having trouble in personal relationships?

Absolutely not. I may be homely but I am Don Juan. You know, y'all need to understand. Unbelievable. Unbelievable.

Trouble making a living? Nope. Bankrupted 4 businesses already. I don't have a problem in the world doing that. You with me?

Come on, guys. No. Alcohol Alcohol fixes that internal condition. People that people that are not alcoholic and addict, they don't understand this. They think what we're doing is just partying too dead gum much.

This is this was not. This started out maybe as a party, but it got to be a way of life. I just wanna drink a little alcohol and then go to the laundromat and finish my my job for the day. Get a drink, go to work, and be the best employ and I am. I when it was working for me, I was the best employee you ever hired.

I just wanna I just wanna go home, take care of the kids, and and do what I'm supposed to do, but the problem but I need this internal help. I need something to treat this discomfort and a drink will do it. You're with us? Not the problem. It's my solution.

What's my problem? What does the book say? We talked about it earlier on page 62. The problem is that I'm selfish and self centered to the core. The book says selfish and self centeredness, that we think is the root of the trouble.

The root of the trouble. Not mommy and daddy, not the molestation, not Vietnam, not the alcohol, not the cocaine. Selfish and self centeredness is what's killing me, and I gotta get out of myself. That's why in the 3rd step prayer, what did it say? God, relieve me of the bondage of alcohol.

Is that what the 3rd step prayer says? No. It says, relieve me of the bondage of self. I'm the most selfish, self centered. We're just we're like we're like ingrown hares, all of us.

You know, we're just we're just all turned in on ourselves, you know, and it's always it's all about me, you know. It's all about me. Somebody passes a memo in the office and I don't get one, no. I'm gonna be fired. It's all about me, you know.

Somebody said in the meeting the other night, she said, god, I can't even watch football anymore. Every time they go in a huddle, I think they're talking about me. It's like I can I can relate to that? I can relate to that. But I'm around AA for 7 years and nobody will tell me that selfish and self centeredness is the root of the trouble.

I'm in therapy for 10 years. Nobody will say it's selfish and self centered. They wanna say they they wanna talk nonstop about my drama, and I got some drama. Thank God for the therapy that helped me get through that. But the steps are what got me connected to God.

The steps are what got me past, excuse me, all of that stuff. Selfish and self centeredness is the root of the problem. So when a newcomer comes to the room, back to sponsorship, if I'm sponsoring you, you're gonna sit here for about 10 minutes while I find you a job. Because unless I find you a job, you ain't staying in this fellowship. You're gonna sit back against the wall and become so uncomfortable you can't stand it and then you're gonna find an excuse.

It's the smoke. There's too many smokers down there. Unbelievable. They just pulled us out of our freaking crack house. Right?

But we're complaining about the smoke. I don't I I mean, really, it's really stupid. He he he cursed for the podium. I just can't be around that cursing. What do you mean?

You you you you cheating on your wife. You you you you're cheating at the job. You you you've screwed everybody around you, and you're gonna come in and complain about somebody cut. What's the truth? I understand what's what's going on.

What's going on is the internal condition is starting to get uncomfortable again, and we're coming apart the same. The the guy that that Chris and mine's buddy from from from Lake Charles, 18 years sober that committed suicide. What was going on with him? Come on, guys. What is suicide?

I mean, suicide is the most selfish, self centered thing you can do. Everybody wants to talk about depression. The it's it's selfish and self centeredness to the 1,000th power. Screw you. I'm out of here.

And I'm gonna leave you holding the bag. Selfish and self centeredness is the problem. The world is never good enough for me, Now I gotta get to a place. How can I overcome that? The book says you gotta have God's power to overcome that.

So what do I do? I put one foot in front of the other and become what what was the the 12 step? I didn't have a spiritual awakening as a result of the steps. Bill Wilson understood it. Unless I give this away, I'm not gonna be able to keep it.

That's why we see guys come out of our hospital and we've got a great success rate there, but a lot of them stay sober for 3 months, and then the internal condition becomes so uncomfortable they can't stand it. Somebody walks by with a pill, some alcohol. My sister here talking about about what what is that? Somebody offered you some booze and you took it. Now where in the hell was all the memories of all the suffering and humiliation of of weeks months ago, of years ago?

Where was all of that? We don't have the defense against that first drink. Unless that obsession is removed, we're going to do it again. So how can I do that? We're gonna have the spiritual experience.

How can I stay in that spiritual experience? How can I continue to stay in that position of neutrality safe and protected? Work with others. We kill alcoholics by the 1,000 in AA today by telling them to take their time. We kill them by telling them you haven't been sober long enough to do that.

Can't share a meeting till you've been sober 2 years. Screw you. Who in the hell do you think you are? All of us. Can't sponsor anybody to you.

You've been sober 2 years. Excuse me? Something magical about 2 years that makes it okay for me to go work with others? Buddy, I tell you, I know guys I know guys all over this country that with 6 months of sobriety that I would send my 16 year old son to today to do the work with because I have watched them have barn burning spiritual experiences and I know that they know how to have one. And I've watched geezers around this fellowship 20 years plus, bone powder dry, hating everybody, believing they know something.