Steps 1 and 2 at the Carry This Message group in West Orange, NJ

At this time, I'd like to, introduce our guest speaker for the month of May. Joanne is very near and dear to my immediate AA family. She comes to us from Coopersburg, Pennsylvania and without any further ado I'd like to introduce Joanne Phee who will be, sharing with us her personal story and her experience strength and hope on steps 12. Hello? My name is Joanne, and I am an alcoholic.

And I'm, really happy to be here and I'm extremely happy to be sober today. That just all popped into my head. I was speaking with, my boyfriend's uncle the other night and, this Saturday, we're going to his daughter's graduation in Penn State and that's going to be my 8 year anniversary that day. So I'm trying to plot and plan on, you know, what meeting I'm going to go to because, of course, you know, I want to go to a meeting that day, somewhere. Last year I was in Western Pennsylvania and, Barry looked at me and he said, because I said, you know, I'm a recovered alcoholic and this weekend I'll be celebrating 8 years.

You know, I'll be celebrating 8 year anniversary of, you know, being sober. And he says to me, boy, it must be really hard, And I said, Oh, no. It's a joy. You know? And I couldn't imagine, still being a slave slave to alcohol.

And this life to me as as it is today, is so much better than anything I could have possibly imagined when, before I came here, before you came and got me. Alcoholics Anonymous came and got me. I didn't come to you. You know. This, you know, was revealed to me, very recently.

You know, I started thinking about it, you know, because I hear so many speakers talk about, you know, when I first walked into the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous and this and that. And I went to make amends to my ex father in law. And I, missed this in the last year. And, it wasn't for any specific harm, but in thinking about our relationship and repeated inventories, it came to me that, you know, I really, held him for things that he wasn't capable of. You know, he did the best he could with what he knew and what he believes.

And, I was never able to make that leap over that bridge. I kept waiting for him to come to me and I went to him and I spoke with him about this and he was really, he's a man of of God as he understands him and, he started talking to me about his daughter. And his daughter, went back into rehab again. She was due to go back in the day that I went to him to make the amend. And if that's not God working in someone's life, I don't know what it is.

But, you know, it came to me. You know, she's the person who came and said she has been sober in AA for about 5 years, and I was still drinking and her brother, my husband at the time, was still drinking. And we drank really well together. It's one of the things I've found most attractive about about him. And, you know, she, you know, arranged an intervention on him and boy was I excuse me, boy was I mad when, I was not invited to this intervention, you know, because she saw me as part of the problem of all things.

And, it took about another 10 months or so but that was, it was as a result of that and her work, you know, her coming to get him and therefore me also. You know, because she just, you know, kind of off handedly said, you know, you might wanna think about this too. You know? And I saw how it worked in her life and what was happening for her. You know?

She, like Evie, struggles with this. You know? And I don't know what it is, but, she's due to get out of the rehab, and I'm going to give her a call because that's what her father asked me to do. So, I'm looking forward to that. There's been, a long period of reconstruction in my life.

And I think that, God works in our hearts at different times and at different in different ways so that we can serve him best. So, you know, she came and got me. You know? Alcoholics and odds came to get me. And I'm so glad you did.

Let's see. I normally begin speaking with, you know, my name. My sponsor's name is Kathy. She's been my sponsor to be a sponsor and also to have a sponsor. And, you know, I can look around the room and I see one of my stepsisters, as I call them, sitting here.

And, I also encourage the women that I sponsor. I introduce them immediately to their stepsisters, as I call them. And, it's exciting for me when I see them starting to sponsor other women. And, this year at Kathy's anniversary, I came and brought, one of her grandchildren or whatever you want to call them along because I think that's important, you know, to see what happens because this can grow geometrically and that's how it has grown is through sponsorship and us passing the message on as we learn it. And that's what's so important about this.

And as Mike opens this meeting, this is vital to my recovery. It's vital to my spiritual health to continue to pass this on. And as, Jay was sharing before, Jay and I lost our jobs probably the same day, wasn't it? You know, I walked into Bernardsville and, you know, and I said to Marybeth, I lost my job today. And she goes, oh my god.

So did Steph's wake up? And I went outside to commiserate with Steph. I didn't know Jay at the time. You know, he's just the boyfriend. And congratulations on finding a job.

You know, I've heard 2 fifth steps this spring. You know? It's been pretty busy. And for me, that's a great way to stay connected, you know, and to, I look at these little breaks from and I look at employment as sort of how God gets money flowing to me. And it doesn't really matter what it is that I need to do as far as employment as much as it is you know, that I can serve other people.

And I'm currently also beginning a career that I think is a real good service for people. It's something I've never tried before. It's a big career change for me, and it's real exciting. So, it's really cool. It's like we're on the same path a little bit sort of, you know, parallel.

That was exciting to hear Jay's news tonight. But sponsoring other women and also, doing other kinds of service. I chaired a meeting for about 9 months this past year, and I just finished that up at the end of April. I speak, about every couple it seems like it's been about every couple of weeks or so I go out on a speaking commitment to a new meeting, some place I haven't been before. That seems to be the way it works out.

I don't know how that happens. I spoke at a friend's anniversary 2 Fridays ago, and I set my anniversary date wrong. Good golly. I don't know what I was thinking. But it just came out wrong.

Oh, well. I'm not perfect. And, I go to a lot of meetings. I still go to a lot of meetings. I've always gone to a lot of meetings because I think that, in the beginning and I'll talk about this a little bit when we get to the second step.

I had a lot of a real hard time. A real hard time especially as a newcomer. Sitting quietly and listening to God. And that's what meditation is. And I couldn't do it.

I couldn't hear anything but the jabbering of my brain. And I would go to a meeting and no matter, you know, it didn't matter what it was that I was going through that day, somebody would say something that had exactly to do with what I was going through. And I know that that's how God speaks to me still through the people in Alcoholics Anonymous. And it works so well for me to be within a fellowship where there are so many people who are on this path with me. And we're all at different places.

And one of the great things about Alcoholics Anonymous for me is the fact that nobody tells me what I have to believe, how I have to believe it, or what I need to do today. You know, I mean, there's steps that we need to follow if we want the results, but nobody says that you have to do them if you wanna walk in this room. You know, a lot of the rooms that I that I'm in in Alcoholics Anonymous, I can see that there's a lot of people who just aren't ready to work the steps for whatever reason, and the grace of God is keeping them sober at that point. And I know that that's what it is because that's what happened for me. I guess I could talk a little bit about my drinking since I have an hour.

None of the none of this you know, I'll give you a little background on me so you can know a little bit about me. I was born in Philadelphia, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. My parents, Bill and Ruth, I was the 3rd daughter. We lived in a little house. House.

I don't know if anybody's ever seen the movie Rocky. It was one of those little houses, you know, and the little elevated train used to go by. You know, you'd hear it rattling by. That that's where I grew up. We then moved, you know, to a nice little split level house Shortly after my father died, he was a teacher.

My mom was at that point going to Temple trying to finish her degree as I was the youngest daughter and I was now in school. The mother had gone back to school herself. And, he died of leukemia. 15 months later she died from complications from breast cancer. The 3 of us, by the protection of God, were kept together, my sisters.

And, we were taken, into the home of my mother's oldest daughter oldest sister. Sister. And I was in 3rd grade. My one sister was in 6th and the other other one was in 9th when this happened. So we were all taken, you know, off out of the city of Philadelphia to a suburb called and the town is Flower Town.

If anybody ever asked me where I'm from, I'm from Flower Town, which is a very nice little town. I actually drove through it the other day because I happen to live, you know, maybe 40 minutes from it now. I, as a child, always did what I thought I was supposed to do. I pretty much followed the rules. You know, I had a pretty a very normal childhood.

Very, very, you know, as as normal as it could be. My sisters and I were together. We all went to a regular, you know, middle class, high school, you know, junior high, elementary, whatever. I did well scholastically as did they. We all knew that it was expected that we would go to college, but Ant had taken what was left, you know, of the estate and put it in trust for us so that that would happen.

And we lived basically on, you know, Social Security, whatever. And when, I got into high school, I started experimenting with drugs. My first drink I was 15 years old. I was on a church hayride. I was very involved with the church.

My aunt and uncle, made sure that all of us got, you know, went to church school, went to, you know, Sunday school, went to church. I was in the choir. I was in the youth group. I got confirmed at the right age, you know, when I was 13 with everybody else. And then, you know, all these things happened in the order they were supposed to happen.

And it wasn't until after I got sober that I realized that all of my childhood I lived in fear. And that was the fear that if I didn't do what I was told, I was going to get put out of that home. I I recall hearing my aunt and one of and my eldest sister. I'm gonna say something that's probably everybody can relate to, but, the way my sister describes it Leslie, if you ever hear this tape, excuse me, but it's you know, we tell the truth here. And, you know, my aunt was going into menopause at the same time that my sister was hitting puberty and it was a really bad combination.

And because nobody knew a whole lot about, you know, all the things that we know about today. So nobody had any explanation for all the emotional turmoil that was going on between the 2 of them, you know, being all of a sudden thrown together in this household. And they used to argue quite a bit. I think a lot of it has to do with also because when my father was ill and my mom was going to school and my mom was ill, my sister left my oldest sister really became the parent. And then all of a sudden we were in this home and, you know, she really, you know, had to advocate that role, you know?

And, you know, here it had always been her responsibility to take care of Gail and I and it was just a mess. But, anyway, back to me. I can recall, them fighting and hearing, my aunt say, you know, to my sister that if she didn't do what she was told to do, my aunt was gonna put her in an orphanage. And being of an alcoholic mind, I never forgot that. You know?

And it was always, like, kinda hang over my head. And I think, a lot of that, for me is, affected me in in my spirit malady because I was always a very, wild child. I was always looking, looking, looking for the next best thing. I can remember when I was a child, always like running out of the house and, you know, running over to my friend's house and their parents would be like, you know, it's like because of course, you know, I didn't listen to my sisters. When she's like, you know, Mommy said you have to be home, you have to stay home, you know, I'd be like, Well I didn't hear her, you know, and I keep going, you know.

And I was like 5, you know. And I'd be out the door going to my girlfriend's house, you know, and I'd show up at her and the mother would open the door and she'd be like, What are you doing here, Joanne? She can't come out and play now. It's dinner time. And I'd be like, Oh, okay.

You know? And even if my friends were there, I wouldn't go home because I had too much pride. I wouldn't admit, you know, that nobody was around. So I would just kinda hang out and do whatever, you know, and ride my bike around the block or whatever I did when I was 5, you know. And but, you know, I had, you know, that was like the essence of my spirit reality was this always, like, running and looking.

You know, running and looking, you know, trying to find the next thing. And, you know, there was always something better and it wasn't here. It was there. You know? And if it wasn't there, it was there.

You know? And maybe it was there. You know? And I did a lot and a lot of running, running out. And I can remember after I did my 5th step the first time, The most powerful spiritual awakening that I had was the was a few days after my 5th step sitting at home alone in my apartment.

Alone, mind you. Television was not. Stereo was not. Neighbors were doing whatever they normally did, you know, and usually I would put, you know, blare everything to drown them out. And, and I'm sitting home alone, sober and it was okay.

You know? And for me that was just so huge, you know, that I could be okay that I could just sit there and it was okay. I was okay with me. I could be calm and content and feel not feel that, you know, restlessness and that need to, like, all of a sudden run out and do something, you know, like anything, you know? And just to be happy with that, you know, just to be with me and that was okay.

And I think that was like that was so huge, You know? It's just it's right it's there in my heart. See. I went to high school. I had my first drink when I was 15.

I was out on a church hayride, and I threw up. You know? We drank Ram and I threw up. You know? Well, you know, I didn't drink rum for a really long time after that until I discovered pina coladas, which was, you know, maybe 10 years later.

But I couldn't drink I still couldn't drink 151. It was just you had to really disguise the room for me to get it down. But that was my first drink. The first the next drink I can remember having, I was out with my boyfriend when I was in college, I was out with my boyfriend, and we had gone to this really romantic place for dinner. And, he you know, it was a white tablecloth restaurant, really nice little inn with a fireplace in the background, and it was wintertime.

And I was 17. My drinking age in, Pennsylvania at that point was 21. So this was like really cool that we were at this restaurant and everything and he ordered Drambuie, you know, with the coffee. And I thought that was like some grown up, you know. And I remember drinking it and just having that whole it was the whole thing, you know.

It was like it was romantic. I felt loved. I felt lovable. I felt content. I felt grown up.

I felt like, you know, like Bill Wilson talks about I have a Roth, you know, like this is the deal, you know. I couldn't stand it. I couldn't stand it going down, but I loved how it felt afterwards. And, you know, for the first time, it filled up that hole inside me that I didn't even know I had. You know?

I never even knew that that hole was there until the booze filled it. You know? And for a long time, I used alcohol to treat that part of my disease. You know? Alcohol treated my spirit malady because it fixed that.

You know? I felt like I was okay. Like I could be loved. You know? And that, I was acceptable in the eyes of other people and, I still knew better than you.

I knew I wasn't acceptable, but I could fool myself just a little bit. You know, I could cheat that. And that's what liquor did for me for a really, really long time. I did a lot, a lot of drugs. And I always drank.

I loved going to frat parties. It cost you a dollar to get in and, I usually had, like, you know, like the inside track on the frat parties because I used to go to all of them. So I knew a lot of the the guys that were in the fraternities, some of them really well. And I knew which ones were going to have the biggest kegs or the most number of kegs like oh this one's having 16, having 22 whoever was going to have the most kegs because I figured well then the beer is going to last until this hour because I knew once I got started I wasn't gonna stop. You know, I was gonna wanna keep going and I wanted there to be enough food, enough enough beer for me, you to drink myself into oblivion on my dollar.

You know, and sometimes I even have to pay, you know, because I knew one of the people at the door so he'd be just like, Oh, God. You know? And, so I did really well with the frac parties in college. However, I managed somehow. I managed.

You know, I did a lot of drugs. I did a lot of amphetamines to study because, of course, you know, I was missing a lot of classes. I wasn't doing my work until the very last minute. I pulled a lot of all nighters. I smoked a ton of cigarettes.

Good golly. I can remember sometimes at, like, 5 and 6 in the morning just like my throat was absolutely raw. I had smoked, like, 2 packs of Marlboro Reds in, you know, like 12 hours or something, you know. It was just like one right after another. So I was, like, speeding a lot.

And, this combined with, you know, so then of course, you know, as soon as I got done whatever I had to do then I deserved to have a drink. You know? Go out to the to the bar and have a drink, you know, and enjoy myself with my friends because I deserved it. You know? I mean, hell, I got done what I had to do.

And, actually I graduated college in 4 years with a double degree and a 3 O average. And I know now in retrospect I was a full blown alcoholic at that point. I can remember, you know, spring semester of my senior year rolling over, you know, and passing the bong to my, to my roommate and saying, you know, I could never imagine waking up in the morning and not taking a hit first. You know? And then, you know, that was immediately followed with, you know, then going to the bar.

You know, it was like whatever really was available, it was always the booze. And, when I turned, you know, when I got into my twenties, I started to notice that, you know, pot was making me paranoid. And I didn't like that so much, you know, so I stopped. And I can remember thinking from that point until up until I actually voiced that opinion to, to my, counselor in rehab, you know, booze was always dependable. I always knew where it was gonna take me and what I had to do to get there, you know, wherever there was that day, you know.

Because sometimes, I wasn't feeling so good. You know, I was feeling a little sad and I wanted to get, you know, a little happy. So that was good reason to go out to the bar. You know, sometimes I was really happy and I wanted to celebrate. So that was a good reason to go to the bar.

You know, sometimes, you know, one of my friends was celebrating this or that or just happened to say meet me at the bar and I said okay and that was a good reason to go to the bar. But, you know and sometimes I just, you know, couldn't stand being in my own skin anymore, you know, because I started to think back on some of the things that I was doing that I wasn't really too proud of at this point. You know, I was, I was an entrepreneur, shall we say, in the drug industry. There was a lot of guys that, you know, you know, they kind of all got, like, lumped into this one little category on the 4th step as the frac boys. You know?

I don't remember their names, you know. And, you know, and and then it was like, Oh, my God, you know, like, what if I see that person on campus, you know? And it was, you know, of course it was like the first time that, you know, that happened, you know, where I slept with somebody and then the next day I saw them and they just, like, didn't even say hello. And there was that sick feeling inside of oh my god. How awful is that?

You know? And of course I didn't think how awful is he. I thought, oh, my god. How bad am I? You know?

I took that in. You know? And I find when I work with other women, that's a pretty common feeling that women have, you know, when that kind of thing happens. Because for me, it goes back to that, you know, I'm just not lovable. You know?

I'm not acceptable. And that's part of my spirit malady. You know? And I realized pretty early on that, I once I started to drink, I had to be sure that there was gonna be enough. Now the question was how much was gonna be enough?

You know? It was really cool when I got my my own apartment because then I could make sure that, you know, I had it at home. You know? This was a little bit more difficult when I was on campus in a state where I was underage until my the middle of my senior year. Up until that point, I had to, you know, find other people to procure the stuff for me.

So, you know, this was, the difficulty, you know, in finding people who are over 21 to, you know, buy me what I wanted. So, it kind of made me in a way, a sporadic drinker. I had, you know, false ID, though, so I could always get into the bars. And once you start frequenting the bars after a while they just kind of assume that you're the right age. I'll tell them when I turned 21, I was home.

I was in Flower Town and I was out with a friend of mine and I was on, I had decided that night because here I had graduated. You know, I wasn't just a beer drinker. I was grown up now and I had started drinking martinis. I drank beefeater gin, martinis straight up with a twist. And on my 21st birthday, I decided I was gonna drink 21 of them.

To me, today, I look back and I see that that's mental obsession. You know? Now Now what happened is, you know, we went to this bar that I had been in many times before and the bartender said, oh, Joanne, what are you here for? And my friend said, my friend Rick said, you know, oh, we're celebrating her birthday. And the bartender said, how old are you?

And I said 21. And he said, well I'm glad to hear that. And, you know, because, you know, obviously, it was news to him. So, what happened was, I drank the 21 martinis and the bar wasn't closed yet and so I drank 2 more. Okay?

Now to me, I think that that's pretty clearly the phenomenon of craving, because that's a lot of booze. There's a couple of shots in each martini. Then what happened was the bar closed, eventually and, after I had these 2 more. And my friend said, well, I know, you know, this this guy's having a a keg has a keg over his house. He's having a little party.

Let's go over there. So we went over there. And we got over there and we helped them finish off the keg. So we started to leave. You know, at this point, there was a lot there's a lot of parts of this that I don't remember.

I had a lot of blackout problems and and and brown out problems in my drinking, you know, or like parts would be missing and then I'd come to again sort of, you know. I have another good story about that. I'll get to that in a minute. And what happened was, you know, we got into his car and he was gonna take me home and, it was January and there was snow on the ground. And, I said, Wait a minute.

You're gonna have to pull over. And I threw up in the snow. I got out of the car and I threw up in the snow. And, the next day I slept pretty much 24 hours around. I guess there was some sedative in my system or something, you know.

I can remember waking up and I had this awful hangover and I just thought to myself, I remembered getting sick the night before and I thought to myself, well that's it. I'm not drinking beer on top of martinis anymore. Now for me, you know, that's kind of like the mental obsession too because, for that continued for like another 15 years where I tried 15 I'll say 15 to 17 years. I tried different ways to control my drinking, you know, and one of them was to watch what I mixed, you know, because I noticed certain things made me sick, you know. I stopped drinking beer after a while because I just got bloated and you had to go the bathroom a lot.

And it was just like, why even bother? But I liked wine. And wine seemed to take longer for me to get into that brown out stage. I usually remembered things that occurred, you know, especially once I got married. And my, husband had his own business and we entertained a lot.

And so it was important that I be able to function and, you know, like, serve dinner, clear dinner, hold a nice conversation with the clients, you know, that kind of stuff and kinda remember it later because I might see them again. And so it was, you know, so that's I did a lot of that in that period. I was drinking wine and that kind of thing. But, for me, I was thinking of another story. Oh, there were periods in my life when I could stop drinking completely.

One of them was when I had gotten out of college and I had gotten a job in my field and I was working at it for 6 or 7 years and someone suggested to me that I would probably be really good at this, you know, these new computer things. This was 18 years ago so, you know, this was going back quite a ways. And that was my first career change. What happened was I continued working at my full time job because I was single, self supporting. That's what I had to do.

And I went to school at night and I took 2 courses which took up 4 nights of the week and the rest the time I had to spend in the data center. So I was, like, virtually busy all the time. I didn't have time to drink. And there was about 6 months where I didn't drink. I thought about drinking, you know, but I just couldn't fit in to my schedule.

And during that period of time because I had a different mental obsession, and I hear this also with a lot of women, you know. Given sufficient reason, we can stop for a while. You know, whether it's a career and that career might be the family. You know, for me, it was this change of careers and going back to school, you know, needing to support myself and wanting to get into this other industry which turned out to be a very profitable decision for me over the course of my life. And so I was able to stop.

Now after I got a job in that industry, that following weekend after I had started that job, it was time to celebrate. And, I was living with a roommate who, I now look back and say, was a binge drinker because she would be sober all week and then on the weekend she would buy like a 5th of vodka and just drink the whole thing just like go in her room and drink the whole thing. And I didn't think anything of it. You know, I was just like, oh, okay. So that's how she drinks.

You know? And it just, you know, didn't occur to me that there was anything strange about that because at that point in my life I had experienced a lot of different ways of changing our consciousness using chemicals. So anybody's bag was whatever they wanted to do. So I was pretty accepting of that and, she bought her bottle of vodka. I bought my bottle of vodka.

And after about, like, so you say a bottle of vodka, it was, probably a quart and I drank about this much of it. Okay? And then I must have gone into a blackout because I came to and there was about this much of it, like, left in the bottom. And, for the that's about 2 inches for the tape. Misrealized.

And I started accusing everybody of drinking my vodka because now all of a sudden I've got the fear that there's not enough. And I'm like what time is it? What time does the liquor store close? And everybody's like, Joanne, you know? You can't drive to a liquor store now.

You know? You're like because obviously while I was in this blackout I was obviously acting like I was drunk because I was. But I don't remember. Just based on it's funny too about how, as an alcoholic I learned to judge how drunk I had been by people's reactions to me when I came to. You know, whether it was within that evening or the next day, you know, and, I became pretty astute at reading, you know, people's reactions and I was always trying to second guess like as my friend Chris says, I could hear you thinking at me.

And it's so true. And, I really try to guard against that today because I feel that that's one of my spirit maladies. You know, it could be, you know, prejudice or, you know, self righteousness or something like that. But back then, I really I think it was paranoia, you know, that I could hear you thinking, at me. But, I was really I was really couldn't remember that, like, middle 3 inches of that bottle of vodka.

And, that just proves, like, so clearly to me today the essence of my disease and how much I'm truly an alcoholic. Because here after this period of time where I didn't drink at all. And I did it quite successfully. I was doing my job well. I was getting promotions at my job and I was moving into another career and doing really well at that.

Once again, as I did in school before, I was getting mostly a's and b's. And, and I successfully moved into that new career. But as soon as I took a drink, that physical allergy, as the doctor's opinion calls it, took over. And the physical allergy for me is that of the fact that once I take a drink, I don't know what's gonna happen. I don't know how many drinks I'm gonna have to have.

Have. And I say, have to have. You know? Because there were certain nights when I could go out and I could have 2 and I could go home and it would be okay. I'm not saying I was happy about it.

Okay? But it would be okay. I wouldn't be like driven to go out, you know, like to the next place where those people, you know, usually those people from work. Because those were the kinds of people that I had to control myself in front of, you know. Like, but, you know, it's abundantly clear to me now with what I know from learning from you people here in Alcoholics Anonymous and this beautiful book, this book Alcoholics Anonymous, that, you know, that was the essence of my disease was that I had to have more.

My body had to have more and I always just thought that I liked to drink. You know, I thought it was just my personal preference and once through my own will power I couldn't stop when I wanted to stop and I couldn't stay stopped when I wanted to stay stopped. I thought I was mentally deficient, morally That I just can't do that something. That I just can't do that, you know, because obviously anything else I wanted to accomplish in my life I was accomplishing. You know, I was, you know, I was When when you came and got me, I was married to a successful man.

I was driving a Jaguar. Well, actually he, you know, I let him have the Jaguar once we got the new Mercedes. And, you know, I mean we were very successful, you know, on the outside but inside I was dying. I hated everybody and everything. And alcohol completely controlled my life.

You know, You know, I planned when I was going to drink, how I was going to drink, who I was going to drink with. And alcohol planned for me all these things. Plus, it planned for me what I was gonna say and what I was gonna think and what my opinions were gonna be, you know? And that's so insidious and it's so hard to understand, you know. And when I was newly sober I didn't get any of this at all.

So for me, you know, the first step, we were powerless over alcohol. That the essence of that for me is the fact that I know that even though, I am a recovered alcoholic, I am recovered as our book promises of that seemingly hopeless state of mind and body where I just couldn't stop once I started and I couldn't stay stopped if I stopped. You know, that was that hopelessness and that not knowing how and not knowing why I couldn't and not knowing, you know, why me? And what's wrong with me and not knowing what's wrong with me. And you people explained it to me and this beautiful book explained it to me.

And it's just that, you know, I have something in my body that once I start to drink, I'm not gonna stop. And that's why I'm not cured of this. It is a disease, you know? But as long as I don't put the as long as I don't put the alcohol into my body, I don't set it off. I don't set off that physical part of my disease.

Now the question is, of course, how to stay stopped, you know, once I got off the booze. Now I have to tell you, this is not easy for me to get off the booze. After Heather, came Heather is the woman who was my sister-in-law. Came and got her brother. He went into a rehab.

And while he was in the rehab, one of my sisters, my eldest sister, said to me, Joanne, what are you gonna do about your drinking? I said, what do you mean? I don't know. I don't know what you're talking about. She goes, well, when's the last time and I'm when's the last time you had a drink?

And I said, well, you know, yesterday or last night. I don't remember what my answer was. And she said, when's the last time you went for a day without having a drink? I lied. And she said, when's the last time you went for a week without drink then?

And I said, well, I don't know, but it doesn't really matter. I mean, everybody's everybody's allowed to drink on the weekends. I mean, you know, why not, you know? And she said well maybe you need to think about this. And I'm thinking to myself what the heck is she reading?

Where'd she get this from? Who's been talking to her? You know, because obviously she had gone and gotten some bucks or something on this thing and why is she bothering? But what I did was while he was in the rehab I stopped drinking. White knuckled it.

Held on by my fingernails. Okay? When when I went to pick him up from the rehab, we were going to we were living in North Jersey. I lived in Jersey from the time I graduated from college until, 4 years ago when I brought my home in Pennsylvania. So I did a lot a lot of my drinking career, as I love to call it, was in New North Jersey, and South Jersey and East Jersey and West Jersey and New York and Pennsylvania and wherever else I traveled.

I've been on cruise ships, and I don't remember what islands I went to. You know, that kind of thing. But I lost my place. Oh, yes. I went to pick him up at the rehab.

Thank you. And and we went we were coming to Pennsylvania and to visit some relatives and he, wanted to stop for something to eat and we stopped at this place that happened to sell food. And I ordered lunch and an iced tea and he ordered a glass of wine with his lunch. And I thought to myself, well I guess there's not not so much to this AA thing then, You know, he's like drinking again already because here I'm thinking okay, you know, we're gonna fresh start, you know, we're gonna be able to, you know, like settle this thing down a bit and get things under control again. You know, because like as, you know, our our beautiful book tells us, our lives were really unmanageable, emotionally, And, it was the outside stuff.

It was the outside stuff that started to bring attention to it. It was about 10 months later that, I was back. I was in that rehab and he was in his, I would say, 4th rehab. That was November of 1992. That was my first sober date, November 22, 1992.

I went into rehab. I spent Thanksgiving in rehab. I came out and I entered the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous. I got a sponsor. I went to lots of meetings.

I did what I was told to do and I was still dying inside. And my sponsor said, well, when you're ready we'll work the steps. And I was dying inside. Every week. And, at this point, you know, I came home from my outpatient the second week and found my husband drunk in the living room.

And here I had thought, you know, well, if I go to rehab and he goes to rehab and we come out and we go to AA and everything will be okay and we can stay sober. Well, that wasn't how it worked. And for the next 10 months, that continued to happen. Now he was very abusive. I don't really need to say a whole lot about that in this venue, other than it was, mental and emotional and physical also.

I made the decision April of that year to move out, and I found my own place and rented it. I was still working and, you know, getting a nice paycheck and, he went into another rehab and convinced me that this time he was really going to stay sober and I let him move in with me. In about sometime August, September, October of that year, I started experimenting again. And that book called it, That Desperate Experiment one more time because I was dying inside and I didn't have a solution. And I went back to the one that used to work because I thought that maybe if I just did it, like, you know, I came home on a Friday night and I was so filled with resentment and anger because once again, you know, he wasn't working.

I was working. He sat home and drank all day. I came home. He was usually, you know, maybe in a puddle of something on the, you know, pee on the sofa. I didn't know if I was gonna walk in and find him dead or alive most of the time and I was so filled with fear all the time.