Chris R. from Ingram, TX speaking in Ponca City, OK

No. There I mean, y'all listen to speaker text me. There's nothing worse than a guy who's standing there and introduces a guy for 10 minutes, So I'm not gonna do that. I'm gonna keep a real short and sweet and, just say that, I could probably talk for an hour about this guy anyway, and I'm really honored for him to be here today with us. And, like you all to, welcome Chris.

That was good. They usually introduce me to some of you're gonna hate this guy and this is this sets me up, you know. Some of you're gonna hate me. It's okay. My name is Chris Raymer.

I'm a recovered alcoholic. I'm grateful to be here. I, I took my last drink, November 13, 1987, and, I'm still pretty amazed at that. I'm I'm one of those cats that could not not drink. And, I, what a great place to be here.

Let me I probably have about the cold. I got some little boogies in here. I can't seem to get rid of it. So you guys bear with me. It's not because I'm overly emotional.

I carry this around. I just I am a shy, sensitive alcoholic, albeit, but I, this club is gorgeous. I you guys do it up right here in Oklahoma. Are all the clubs in Oklahoma this nice? Yeah.

Right. Yeah. Right. Probably. He kept saying coming over, he was kept saying, well, you know, it's like he's describing this very humble little place, so this is like the Taj Mahal.

You know? Some of the some of the holes that I I go to meetings at. You know, we have a place in Ingram where I go to meetings called the called the outpost. It used to be an old bear joint called the outpost. And when we we took it over the rent over the deal.

It's still the outpost and then it's it still looks like an old beat up bar. You know, that's what it it's unbelievable. This is nice. I gotta thank everybody that had anything to do with getting me up here. I, I know it takes a lot of time and effort, and I guarantee, I know it takes some, chunk of change to play pay airfare and a motel room.

And I'm I'm I'm I appreciate it. I there's no gurus in AA, and none of us are better than anybody else. And, I'm fortunate that I get a chance to travel around a lot. I I I don't like to do this. I I love meeting you guys and get to see you and and talk to you.

I'm not a real big fan of speaking. I, I'll I'll just be honest with you. I'm I'm I'm pretty good at it. I've done it for a few years, but I I know that what I'm gonna say tonight, we're gonna we're gonna I'm gonna talk about an hour. We're gonna do a little I'm gonna give you a little bit of my story, and we'll talk a little bit about sponsorship tonight and, talk a little bit about alcohol synonymous as I as I get it as I perceive it.

And, and then we'll we'll go have some some, dinner, which, I know all you all came for anyway. What the heck? Let's let's just get straight. Chicken will bring them in and out of the cold anytime. And, and then we're gonna come back and and I'll talk for another hour or so, along the same lines, on sponsorship.

And and, that's gonna be the kind of the main focus of this. Real quick before I get started in this, I wanna make sure that everybody kinda understands, where I'm coming from. I, Anytime I speak from the podium, I want it real clear that I don't represent Alcoholics Anonymous in any way. And I don't I work for a a treatment center down in Hill Country. I have a clerical work for that treatment center, and I wanna make sure that y'all understand that I'm not here representing that treatment center.

Lord knows they would die if they heard me speak from the podium up here. Some of the things I say, I've got my own opinion about treatment centers. I I love treatment centers. I believe they've done a lot of good. I also believe they've done a lot of damage to our fellowships.

There are a lot of people talking about stuff out there that they don't know nothing about. And some of y'all are shaking your heads. I got 4 or 5 friends in the audience anyway. So I, I think there's some great ones out there, and I think there's some that don't do a a a very good job at all other than detoxing. So but but I'm not here representing that that that company.

I I wanna mention this that that, you know, I'm sitting in the hotel room and we're coming over and after after they drop me off and I'm sitting there, you know, talking to God like I always do before I speak and, you know, and it's there's there's one little voice over here on this side of my shoulder saying, Chris, just just just go give them a nice little a hay talk and hug your little neck and eat their chicken and get back on a plane and go back to Texas. And then no nobody's and there's other little voice that he says that says, Chris, but you need to share the message that you believe so strongly in. And that's what I'm, you know, I'm I'm committed. I if I don't share it, then I won't sleep tonight. And if I do share it, some of y'all aren't gonna sleep tonight.

Well, what can I say? What what am I gonna do? I'm caught between a rock and a hard spot here, but I plan on sleeping tonight. So so that's the cool thing about Alcoholics Anonymous is that that that we get to share kind of what's on our mind. We get I mean, you know, there's the book kinda guides us what we're supposed to do.

We got the the steps and the traditions and the concepts to kinda keep us heading in the right direction and and, anything you can't reconcile with a big book, you know, let it go in one area out the other if you want to. I I I need to make this point very clear. I anything I say up here, some of the stuff I'm gonna be sharing, I'm gonna share it as as as I perceive things. I'm I'm looking at I'll call it synonymous from from the perspective of of a chronic relapser. That that's me.

I'm I'm a Catholic that tried for years to get sober in therapy, in church, in, in Alcoholics Anonymous. I'm a I'm a cat that works around the the treatment center business and have for 10 years, and I've watched thousands of Alcoholics and Addicts come into that hospital and leave that hospital. And, the one common denominator with all of them, alph alcoholics and addicts alike, is they is they they most of them, 90% of them, have had very poor experiences in our fellowship. We've got we've got this this this I mean, we got some problems in our fellowship and most of this stuff can be traced to poor sponsorship. We we we stopped relying on a very clear message out of the big book about called synonymous and started relying on what we call word-of-mouth.

And that's why we got the book to begin with, was so that we would stop doing that. You you with us? I mean, there's a lot of things out there that sound good, but when you put it in practice, it's it doesn't really make a lot of sense. And that's that's what I wanna talk about. So if some of the stuff I say tonight is a bit controversial for you and it it grinds you a little bit, you know, but I'll be here, like I said, all evening, and you're more than welcome to come visit.

I got some cards down in in my little briefcase over there. I'll be more than glad to give you one of those cards and you can call me next week. It's a 800 number. There's an email address on there. You can call and tell me what it worth was.

You know what I am? You know? So I was thinking coming over here from the airport when when, Crystal picked me up, you know, I was thinking, you know, like, I used to drink in Oklahoma. You know, I used to do a lot of drinking up there in in Wichita Falls and and, Vernon, Texas, and we'd drive across, get drunk, get all tanked up and come back and show them Okie Boys what it was all about, you know. And I I some of the worst butt beatings I ever took were right across the border in Oklahoma, and I I hope I don't go home with another butt beat.

That's that's that's my one goal tonight. So, I love Alcoholics Anonymous, and I the people at Alcoholics Anonymous are the absolute finest people I have ever met in my life, and it's it's never my intention to to step on anybody or scald anybody in in any any form or fashion. I I just I just, you know, it's funny in the hospital, you know, I mean, I've got this reputation being pretty pretty pretty hard ass, you know, I'm not always in somebody's face, you know, and it's like everybody thinks that's great until it's it's their ass I'm in, you know, and then all of a sudden it's like, Chris, he was a great guy and now all of a sudden he's he's not so great of a guy. And so if I say something that makes you a little uncomfortable, my intention is hopefully to give you some stuff to think about, just to consider. You know, I'm I'm 16 years sober and and and there's still times in meetings I'll hear something, thank God, that that will spur some thought in me.

See, I had a spiritual experience 16 years ago, but I don't wanna live on the spiritual experience that I had 16 years ago. I wanna live on the spiritual experience that I'm having today. You said I I need some new food. The the book the other book that we we talk about sometimes, you know, talks about giving us our bread, our daily bread. I I need a a daily infusions of of a new spiritual experience, and that's that's the coolest thing I think about Alcoholics Anonymous is that so many of us, we come in here believing that what this is about is not drinking one stupid day at a time, and and and that is not what this is about.

It it is for some people and if that's your case, so be it. From my perspective, it's it's about not drinking. Yes. But it's also about having continual spiritual experiences and being able to grow in effectiveness and and and with my relationship with God, with with a power greater than myself. And that that I think is what it's what it's all about.

Where I got sober where I tried to get sober up in North Texas for years, they they hated anybody coming in there talking about God because they were so afraid that one of the newcomers would leave because we were talking about God. And it's just it it it still to this day freaks me out when people my book says that no human power can get me sober. What's gonna get me sober? God? Oh, let me see if I can put this together.

You see, but we're not supposed to talk about God, so how are we gonna do this? We're not. You know, if God drives you out of here, whiskey will drive you back. I don't know what to tell you. I wonder I wonder how many people I wonder how many people we've killed over the years walking on eggshells around people that don't wanna talk about God.

The coolest thing about Alcoholics Anonymous is when I say the word God, we got 40 people in here. I don't know how many people we got in here, but if we if there was we got 40 different concepts of what that power is. Big deal. Cool. Let's let's go with it.

You know what? Maybe the red road. It maybe it it maybe Buddhism. It maybe something else. Who who cares?

That's the coolest thing. God, as we understand it. But just to not talk about God because it's gonna make somebody uncomfortable, I think it's absolutely asinine. This fellowship years ago, I'll talk a lot about the archives. I'll talk a lot about the history.

This this fellowship years ago was nothing but a spiritual program. Nothing but a spiritual program. And, of course, thanks again to the treatment centers, we've turned it in the last 30 years, we've turned it into nothing but a junior therapy session. Drives me nuts and I'm I'm gonna hit it hard tonight. I can feel it already.

That's one of the problems with the CDs out there. You know, I think the tapers have done a tremendous job passing the message of hope to newcomers coming into the fellowship. I'm a big a big fan of CDs and listen to other speakers and getting an uplift. And the problem is with the with the dead gun things is that when you've got them and and and you're listening to them driving down some country road here in Oklahoma, you know, the speakers a 1000000 miles away and you hear something that you don't like, well, you've got nobody there to discuss it with, you know. You just it's it's it's a grinder.

I mean, the roads of Texas are littered with my CDs. That's just the way it is. If you're happy, joyce, and free, and working the steps, and kicking butt, you you follow me? You you love what I'm gonna say from this podium. If you happen to be in a bad spot tonight sitting in this room, this is gonna grind you.

This is gonna grind you because it's what it's gonna sound like I'm doing in in in in all the topics that I'm gonna talk about in the next few hours, what it's gonna sound like I'm doing is making fun of your issues. Y'all with us? I've got these little buttons. Cara's wearing one of these little buttons and I've got one on and some of I've got some little buttons down here. Issue man.

You know, little buttons. Some of you some of you guys need to pick up one of these buttons, and they got this little this little guy on there, you know, and it's got these little x's on the outside of the of this little guy. And that's what I'm trying to get you guys to see from these talks and and, I guess, in our meetings too when we're when we're when we're discussing this. We're trying to talk about we've spent so much time worried about those issues and not near enough time worrying about what's going on inside. Our spiritual well-being has got nothing nothing to do with our external world.

And yet what Outpost Anonymous has become is a place to sit and talk about our external world. And that the most controversial thing I'm gonna say from the podium, I'm saying right now to get it out of the way. I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna get it out of the way so you can go ahead and get your coffee and get the heck out of here because I'm good because you're not gonna like what I got to say. I love you. I I it's nothing personal.

Alcoholics anonymous is not a dumping ground for your daily problems. I feel so much better. I remember hearing a speaker one night and and and I was on sitting on the edge of my seat the whole time he was speaking, and it was just a fascinating talk. It it it it because everything he was saying was me. You know what I what and then right at the very end, he started talking about working the steps.

You with me? And, of course, I'm I'm in and out of AA for 7 years not working the steps. Oh, did I mention I wasn't staying sober either? You're you're with me? Chronic relapser.

I'm a desired chip picking up fool, buddy. I I don't there were periods in that 7 years where my back was sore from being hugged so much. Oh, you know, you come every every night, you come back in. Chris, jeez, didn't we just give you a desire chip last night? Uh-huh.

It's been a tough day. You know, it's like, I'm drunk again, you know. Well, how about another desire chip and a whole bunch of hugs and, oh, jeez, you know. I'm just you know. And I remember this guy started talking about the steps and he explained.

He he said this one thing and and I've said it up on other other other he said he said, we work the steps to get connected to God. You see? And then God takes care of these other things. And I remember I was so incensed incensed by what he said. You see, because I was a Christian and I was I was I believed in God, I didn't have any problem believing in God.

The problem is there was a huge difference, and I didn't understand it, a difference between believing in God and having access to God. Huge difference. You're down with that? And I couldn't understand that. And then he chapped me off and I got up, made a big flurry, got my coat, you know, as I told, knocked my coffee over, stormed out of the room.

I wanted everybody to know that Chris Ramer was pissed off, you know, because this guy offended me, you know, and it's like, buddy, all I can say in there, guys, no, don't let the screen door of your arrogance hit you on the ass on the way out. You you got me? I mean, we we gotta understand what we're dealing with here is an absolutely fatal illness, progressive illness called alcoholism and drug addiction. Big and and and and if you got it, you're gonna die from it if you don't get well, if you don't if you don't recover. See?

And it's not a lot of ground there to be mincing around your sensitive little feelings, and I gotta say it again. I'll say it a dozen times in this in this evening that we're gonna get a chance to share together. I'm gonna there's a bunch of us in this room and I'm as guilty of it as the next person who wanna spend way too much time tip toeing around sensitive little feelings. And we're killing them, folks. We're killing them by the 1,000 out there by doing that.

We've been given a message that works, we know it works, there's millions of us over to prove it, tons of testimony to show that it worked, and yet we are afraid to talk about it. We're we're we're not out there on the street, folks, with a big old sandwich board on, come in, AA meeting, you know, free coffee. We're not we're not soliciting business for alcoholics anonymous. We're here as a service. If you're ready to get sober, want to do something about your drinking, we're here for you.

If you don't, bye bye. You turned into a social group. I think everybody's welcome in these rooms. Welcome. You know, my concern is not- My concern is not we just read the traditions.

We read we read the preamble where it says our primary purpose is to help other alcoholics get sober. Isn't that what we we just read? You read the traditions. You'll see up here? See number 5?

Each group has one primary purpose. Carry its message to the alcoholic who still suffers. Read the long form. Says the same thing for the alcoholic. You get a drug addict that wanders into the wrong room in my part of the world and some some guy will snag him quick, jerk him out.

This is this is Alcoholics Anonymous. This is for alcoholics. You with us? Understand it. Singleness of purpose, I'm for it.

I understand that. You with me? Nobody has a problem doing that, but we'll have a meeting and some little old lady will sit over and talk about her stupid divorce one more time, and nobody will say anything. The absolute arrogance of us absolute arrogance of us to think that we can come into a meeting and share anything we want freaked me out. My perspective, y'all understand what that word means?

My perspective means that you you nice lady sitting over there on the on the on the chair, you're seeing me one way. You can probably see. I trimmed these little nose hairs up here. I'm sitting so high up here. I'm glad I did now, you know.

Because from your perspective, you can see right up my little nose here. My perspective right now, I can see right down on top of your head. You're with us? Perspective. It's like some of you cats in this room are the real McCoy.

You're you're textbook alcoholics and you're gonna understand where I'm coming from. You ever tried to do an AA? Can you imagine me doing an AA talking in front of a rotary rotary bunch? You know? Good morning.

Hope you enjoyed your pancakes, and I'm gonna tell you a little bit about my story and then I'm gonna give them this long line, tell them about my eating out of dumpsters in Houston, Texas, and I'm gonna talk about all the businesses I bankrupted. I'm gonna talk about all this crazy stuff and I'm gonna watch about 85% of those people get real uncomfortable and wanna leave. There's about 15% that are gonna be sitting on the edge of the seat because they can identify with what I'm saying. You with me? Alcoholic can identify with another alcoholic.

That's this that's why singleness of purpose is so important. That's why my brothers and sisters in cocaine anonymous and narcotics anonymous do such a great job with the drug addicts because they can identify with where those cats are coming from. You you all with us? Alright. My perspective is this, having come in and out of this fellowship for so long trying to get well, and couldn't get well.

Now this is my story. I I'm I'm sticking to it. This is this is my experience. This is what I'm trying to share with you. Some of you guys walked into an AA meeting, loved it, got sober, and have been sober ever since.

You're not gonna identify with what I'm saying. My experience was I was in and out of a lot of dadgum rooms trying to get well and couldn't because nobody would tell me how to get well. We had the steps and the traditions on the wall, somebody read how it worked, but there wasn't a big book in the place. And there was certainly nobody sponsoring anybody in those groups that I was trying to get sobering. That's my story.

And it's the story of a lot of people that come to the hospitals where I work. The the treatment centers where I work, we get about a 1000 patients through their year. Jeez. It's it's a big place. Most of these cats have been in AA before.

Most of those peep those places, I mean, the the the cats that have gone to these AA meetings had not been able to stay sober for some of the same reasons that I couldn't get sober because nobody would get off dead center and talk about the solution. That's all I'm trying to get you guys to see. We assume that everybody's gonna get sober sooner or later. That is so wrong, it's not even funny. There's not a week goes by that we don't transfer some of our patients to the state hospital because they're never gonna get well.

You all understand wet brain, they have drank themselves to death. They're still alive. Some of these little crack addicts we see coming through there just burned out. They're not coming back. Again, I think there's some arrogance in us to sit here and think, well, when they've had enough, they'll come in.

Ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous. That's what we're gonna talk about today. Wanna make sure we get clear here too, anything I'm saying here. I'm not a big big, I'm a big book thumper, but I believe there's probably a gazillion ways to work these steps.

I'm not even gonna go there today with any of yet. Bless your hearts. I think the steps can be worked in any form or fashion that you wanna work them. I I I this 12 and 12 adds a lot of cool stuff to the steps and and, you know, well, the only thing that I would say is that the book is crystal clear about working the steps rapidly. The the steps were never intended to be worked over a long period of time.

If you've been sober for a few years and you wanna take your time and kinda work through them and take a step a month and focus in on it, I think that's a great idea. But initially, going in the door when somebody walks through the door, still smelling the crack pipe and been drinking all day long, the last thing they need is somebody to tell them to take their time because that's not what this book says. You see? Because guys, friends, they don't have time. They they're they just don't have time.

They need to get well quick. They need we need to get them to God quick, and that's that's our job in Alcoholics Anonymous is to help the newcomer get this thing as quick as possible. Joe and Charlie, you know, when they talk, they've got a new book out there about working with others. One of the paragraphs of it is the greatest. It's like it's like making a cake.

You know, what what are you guys gonna do? You're gonna put the eggs in now and then 2 months later, go ahead and add the milk and then then 6 months later, go ahead and add the flour and, you know, and you know what I'm saying? But another year, go ahead and put it in the oven. What kind of cake are you gonna get? And I think he makes a great point.

The steps were intended to be worked rapidly. That's where that's where some of us have had such dynamic spiritual experiences because we work through this stuff. Boom. I mean, Bill Wilson was on his 9th day in detox, for heaven's sakes, working the steps out of detox when he had his barn burning spiritual experience. Doctor Bob, little little over 2 weeks to finish all 12 steps, making his amends.

The the day he took his last drink, he was out making amends. You with us? But we got cats sitting in these meetings telling the newcomer to take their time to work the steps. Well, who does that crap come from? Because you were able to take your time to work the steps, you assume that the other person's got time to take the take take their time.

Let's get another thing real clear before we get into this too dang far. Alcoholics Anonymous has got a lot of people in it. Let me get something to drink here. Is this the Zima? Yeah.

Wonder what that taste like, Zima. They didn't have that when I, it just looks so good on the ads. Okay. A lot of people in our politics anonymous, you know, you walk into a room like this and you assume that we're all drunks in this room, but I'm gonna tell you something. For the newcomer that's sitting in this room, that's a that's a that's an assumption that'll get you dead.

You gotta be careful what what you're assuming in these in these fellowships. You assume that the cat sitting in the room is an alcoholic just like you, the real alcoholic, and we're gonna talk about that. What is a real alcoholic? But the truth is the cat sitting next to you, maybe he's just a hard drinker. Big book spends pages talking about it on page 2021.

It it separates, moderate drinkers, hard drinkers, but what about the real alcoholic? What about the person on page 21? I got little stickers at the at work with t shirts we wear. I'm the person on page 21. I'll send you one if you want.

It's like it's and I wear don't wear it in the Walmart. Every fool in the place will come up and say, what's on page 21? And then you're gonna have to explain, buddy. Everybody come up and ask you, what's on page 21? I'm the person on page 21.

I'm the real alcoholic, but I'm sitting in meetings with with people that got jammed into treatment because they they they they had a little DWI or they they got a little trouble at home and they came to came to AA. You're with us? Let's qualify now. Let's qualify. What is it?

What what does it mean to be an alcoholic? See, because because because these cats, although they're quite well meaning, I don't think anybody in AA intentionally ever tries to hurt anybody, I I don't think for a second, but inadvertently, because that person is not the real alcoholic, the stuff coming out of his mouth may kill the real alcoholic. It drives you guys crazy. I just look on some of your faces. You just get that makes you so uncomfortable.

Well, if you say you're an alcoholic, you're an alcoholic. God damn, guys, I can call myself a duck. It doesn't mean I'm a duck. You can call yourself anything you want. I'm just saying, are you willing to base your life on on on some some crap coming out of somebody's mouth that's calling themselves an alcoholic and you can't verify with what's in the big book?

It's where we get this take your time to to to work the steps stuff. What is what's that about? Here's what it said. I'm gonna read a couple of little things in here. Some of you guys, if you if you got a book, you can read along.

Not. Page 34 in this, I love these big clocks in here too. This is great. This will get them long winded speakers real uncomfortable. That's a big trend.

You know, I speak I speak all over the country and other countries, and I I get a chance to do this a lot. You know what it's a the big trend now for the circuit speakers is to talk for for almost 2 hours, you know. It's like, unbelievable. You get an alcoholic to sit for an hour, it's pretty soon. And look at all you guys smoking in here.

I this is this is this is absolutely reenergized my my opinion about polytunnels. We got all of these smokers sitting in here smoking. You you go get them, guys. This is good. Down in Texas now, they get all the clubs.

They're practically all of them are non smoking. I mean, you you you start light up a cigarette and they, you know, they'd rather you go get drunk, you know. Shoot. This is one of the best paragraphs. And when I finally got sober in 1987, after years in and out of the fellowship, this guy opened this.

The first night I got back in, he opened this page to me and showed me this. He says, middle paragraph, he says, for those who are unable to drink moderately, the question is how to stop altogether. We're assuming, of course, that the reader desires to stop. Stop. Now, guys, you know that's an assumption, isn't it?

We got a lot of cats coming to this fellowship. They got no more intention of stopping than the man in the moon. They want the heat to go away. They want that blowtorch to move back from their butt just enough so they can move around a little bit and then they're gonna go right back and do it again. I'm with it.

I'm down with it. You're back till you drop, but let's don't assume anything. Okay? That's, I think, one of the main things that a sponsor needs to do when first gets tangled up with with a new sponsee. You better qualify that cap.

That's your responsibility as a sponsor is to qualify that cap. None of it, you know, I go up to you and say, would you sponsor me? And you say, yes, I'll sponsor you. Call me tomorrow. It's like, and I'm sitting there like deer in the headlights, like, what the hell just happened here?

Call me tomorrow? Okay. I will. I wanna go have a drink now but I'll call you tomorrow. Let's find out.

Let's qualify these cats. Let's find out if they even need to be here. Y'all y'all y'all with us? Let's I mean, the the book is asking us whether such a person one of the best lines in the book. Whether such a person can quit upon a non spiritual basis depends upon the extent which he has already lost the power to choose whether he's gonna drink or not.

Takes my breath. Did you did you get it? Let me read it again. Whether such a person, this person we're talking to, can quit upon a non spiritual basis depends upon the extent to which he has already lost the power to choose whether he's gonna drink or not. This is the baffling feature of alcoholism as we know it.

This utter inability to leave it alone, no matter how great the necessity or the wish. Now that's a yes or no question right there, buddy. Can you stop on your own power? First step, guys. Look at it.

Where where am I at? Look at it. It says there are lives it says we were powerless over alcohol, their lives become unmanageable. My question to you is a newcomer coming in the door, want me to sponsor you. My question to you, first out of the bag, are you powerless over alcohol?

Let's find out because here's what you're gonna do. You're gonna sit down and bust some bust your butt and spend some time with this cat and getting working through the steps, and about the time you get to that old 4th step, you're with us, they're gonna crap out and you're gonna you're gonna you're gonna have wasted all of that time on somebody that wasn't even powerless to begin with. If they still think they can stop on their own power, they don't need God to do it. They can do it on their own. You with us?

That comes from this belief that, AA, some kind of a self help program. If I just go to enough meetings, everything's gonna be okay. Ridiculous. That's where this term where did this term meeting makers make it come from? We do it in treatment all the time.

90 meetings in 90 days. Some of you guys are products of that. You went to 90 meetings in 90 days. That's great. Listen.

I need to tell you, I went to a 120 meetings in 90 days one time and drank. It's got nothing to do with going to be it's like me going to the stupid gym and sitting out in the lobby and reading a magazine. At the end of 6 months, I'm gonna look just like this. Very pathetic, you know, pretty pathetic. If I wanna get well, there's certain things I gotta do and that means to get off my butt and go in there and sweat a little bit.

Guys, getting sober is is is a bear. Getting sober is tough, and it takes some work. The work is the 12 steps. We're gonna finish the work. You're gonna have a guaranteed spiritual experience.

The obsession to drink a drug is gonna leave you, and you're gonna you're gonna you're gonna be well. It's gonna be a cool thing to watch. But we we we tell newcomers, we imply that if they'll just keep coming to these meetings, everything's gonna be okay. That is absolute rubbish. Rubbish.

Feel better saying that too. Can you stop? Can you stop? Bottom bottom page 25. There's dozens of these pages.

If I had time, I'd mark them down, but I just didn't. There's page after page of page of questions. Bottom page 25, it says, if any of you guys got your books, you know, mark them. If, question mark, you are seriously alcoholic as we were, we believe there's no middle of the road solution. We were in a position where life was becoming impossible and if we had passed in the region from where there was no return to human aid, we had but two alternatives.

1 was to go on to the bitter end, botting out the consciousness of our intolerable situation as best we could. The other was to accept spiritual help. You can't make any headway with a newcomer, folks, until you get this cleared up. Are you understanding that your hope must come from spiritual guidance or do you still think that this is some kind of a self help program and you're gonna come in here and everything is gonna be okay, when the testimony of 1,000 of us show that that is not the truth. The bill is asking us to ask the newcomer, Buddy, are you really one of us?

Have you lost the power to choose whether you're gonna do this or not? 20 and 21, it asks you it asks you point blank. It spends the first 23 pages talking about the physical allergy. When you put alcohol in your body, can you guarantee me how much you're gonna drink every time? Have you caught yourself trying to control it?

See, normal drinkers don't control it. Normal drink even hard drinkers don't control it. Hard drinkers, they decide to go out and get ripped, they go out and get ripped. It's no big deal. What do we do?

No. That's enough. You know, you follow me? You you you just it's it's it's the line the great line in the book says there's a great obsession of every abnormal drinker to be able to control and enjoy his drinking. I can control it.

You put enough pressure on me, give me a good looking woman that doesn't want me to drink or a job that doesn't want me to drink and I'll I'll put the I'll control it for short periods of time. Yeah. That was a in the food business for years. I was a professional chef for years. I had to control it, but there were times that I intended to control it, intended to drink just a couple, and ended up drinking half a Texas.

Yeah. With this clear indication that there's a physical thing going on with us that that's not right. Alcoholism and drug addiction, folks, I've said this on a gazillion CDs. Alcoholism and drug addiction is not causal. There's nothing out there causing it.

It's one of the most confusing things because the treatment centers want us to believe that it is causal, that there's something out there causing it. If something molestation, something, Vietnam, some some issue out there. If that's what caused you to drink, you're not one of us. You need to look close at that. Alcoholism and drug addiction is genetic.

It's genetic. It's genetic. It's genetic. I'm wired different than normal drinkers or hard drinkers. There's a huge difference, guys, between, an alcoholic drug abuser and an alcoholic.

You know what it is? A lot of people drink abusively, but given sufficient reason, the book says, they can stop. They'll do some good therapy, work through the issue, come out the other side, and never have a problem with it again. They can drink socially. They could just they're just good good eggs.

Y'all with us? Or not drink at all. But the real alcoholic will not be able to stop and stay stopped without spiritual intervention. That is a fact. The physical piece is pretty easy for most people to understand.

How do we treat the physical piece? We detox your butt. Y'all understand that? We throw you in detox, we get you cleaned up, get the stuff out of your system, No more phenomenal craving kicks in. You are you are well in that physical peace, and it won't be triggered again until you put the first one back in your body.

Y'all with us? That's why I get crazy with the with the old timers in the meetings of old timers, new to any everybody that says it. You want they wanna come back and say, well, if you don't drink the first one, you won't get drunk. That's Nancy Reagan's crap. Just say no.

No. I hope I get to meet her before she dies. So I can tell her she's a little off page here. Not being disrespectful to the lady but I'm saying she doesn't understand. She's not one of us.

If you don't drink the first one, you won't get drunk. It's like me, like, No shit. I didn't think of that. Why didn't I think? It's like a v eight moment.

It's like, god, I couldn't. This is the first one. It always gets your right. Guys, then we spend the next 20 pages. The book explains to us why why we can't not put the first one back in our bodies.

That's what alcoholism and drug addiction is. The utter inability to leave the stuff alone no matter how great the necessity or the wish. We have people people coming into the hospital, you know, when the moms and dads will come in and If if it just gets bad enough, we keep hoping he'll quit. And we're laughing but we all quitting fool, you know. I'm great at quitting.

I'm just a better starter. You know, I mean, I get cranked up. I can stop for long periods of time. It drives me crazy when I talk to people and they the the family members of us, and they don't understand that. I get I get stuff coming out of their mouth, the alumni ladies, the people that are not in the fellowship, they say, they say, well, I guess he just doesn't love us.

Okay. How can k. How can you I gotta tell you guys, there were times when I wanted to stop and told you I was gonna stop, but the back of my mind, I knew I was gonna drink again anyway. It's just no big I I I know. I understand stuff coming out of my mouth.

I've said it a 1,000 times. But, you know, guys, in my 20 years of drinking and drugging, there were some times that I really, really wanted to stop. There were some times that I needed to stop. There were times that I got on my knees in front of a wife and begged her forgiveness and told her that I would never ever drink or drug again and meant it. I'd I would've fought you if you'd have said that I would ever go back on my work.

Guys, turn to page 24 if you got your little books. I got some little handouts here later on while we're eating greasy chicken. You guys can pick up some of these little handouts. Some of these little handouts are good. I didn't bring a lot, but I brought some.

You guys can make copies, but, I didn't I didn't figure there was this many drunks in Oklahoma altogether, much less Ponca City, for heaven's sake. On page 24, there's another there's another little bullet that people, for 7 years in and out of Alcoholics Anonymous conveniently never showed me. The fact is that most alcoholics, for reasons yet obscure, have lost the power of choice in drink. Our so called willpower becomes practically non existent. We are unable at certain times to bring into our consciousness with sufficient force the memory and suffering and humiliation of even a week or a month ago.