Chris R. from Ingram, TX, Peter M. from Union, NJ & Myers R. from Dallas, TX answering questions on saturday afternoon at the Primary Purpose Weekend in Camp Hill, PA

Anybody got a question? Hey. My name is Carolyn. I'm an alcoholic. Hi, Carol.

I've really enjoyed it. Thank you guys for coming. Here's my question. This has a little bit to do with singleness of purpose. And I'm not gonna tell my story up here, but when I went into treatment, I was pretty broke up, and hadn't surrendered and was very, very angry.

And, my chart was laying out on the nurse's desk, so I decided I would lean over and peek at it and see how sick I was. And, so I read on there, that it said my diagnosis was animal drugs, opiate dependency, and then it had ETOH, alcohol. And I said, Alcohol? I guess I still wanted to think I could drink and still be okay. Of course I got to a certain point when I was in treatment where I realized that I was never gonna change if I didn't learn how to solve problems without changing the way I felt.

So I hit the point of surrender and got this temporary sponsor who took me through the book, still not quite convinced that I was an alcoholic. I hadn't examined my drinking that thoroughly. I just know that alcohol combined with all of these other things is what brought me to a coma, pretty much, state, and had to go to the hospital. So by my temporary sponsor, who became my sponsor, she took me through the book and we got to we agnostics and we read that definition of an colic and we started examining my drinking. And my drinking was completely alcoholic drinking and I knew that.

And so the delusion that I could drink like other people was smashed, and I knew at that point that I was an alcoholic. Now for a couple of weeks, I was going this fellowship, that fellowship, this fellowship, that fellowship, and rapidly knew that the place for me was Alcoholics Anonymous. And so agnostics. I wanna know what your opinion is about that, because some people aren't quite ready to let go of the alcohol. They wanna they think that the other things are what brought them to their knees, and they still wanna hang on to that alcohol.

And that's where I was at. Now I've got no delusion today, that I can drink like a normal person. And I'm in the right place. But I was wondering, you know, how y'all felt about that. Because people come in the rooms and they start sharing that they're an alcoholic or they're an addict or I'm so and so and I'm addicted, you know?

And they don't really give the respect to the program that they're in, which is Alcoholics Anonymous, and say I'm so and so and I'm an alcoholic. My sponsor had 17 years in Alcoholics Anonymous, and she didn't know very much about the other things. But she did know about alcoholism, and she did show me pretty quickly that I drank like an alcoholic and knew I was where I belonged. You know, that was 6 years ago. So the question is- Specifically is.

The question specifically is, I think it's easy to run people off if they come in and think that they're just an addict, before they get a chance to examine their drinking. Because I didn't get a DUI. I understand that. That's a sponsorship deal if, lead up to the microphone. I'm sorry.

I forgot. I'm new at this. I forgot that this is a sponsorship deal from start to finish and that, it's the sponsor's responsibility in these deals to qualify these guys and make sure that they understand that stuff. The atrocity in AA, is that we let people get way off into the deal without ever really qualifying them. We assume a lot of things, and there's where we get into some trouble.

And and so, it it's unfortunate that anybody gets into this deal without understanding what their truth is. What was it that kicked your rear? I am a a badly behaved alcoholic that knew I was an alcoholic from the time I was 19 years old. I did toe sacks full of crank, toe sacks full of stuff, but I was not an addict. It did not kick me to the mat.

And when it came time to quit, I could walk away clear, clear from it. So what's my truth? I'm not an addict. I'm an alcoholic. But I needed to understand that on a gut level before I ever got into the stuff, into the work itself.

You see what I'm saying? Mhmm. That's our responsibility. That's what that's what your sponsor did for you. She helped you see your truth.

That's your responsibility for the newcomer. Help them see their truth. That's our power. We're teachers. But I I went around for 2 weeks getting out of treatment saying, you know, my name is Carolyn.

I'm an addict. That's true. A lot of our experience And and Alcoholics Anonymous. And, you know, not realizing that, I was that I drank. It happened.

You're lucky it was only 2 weeks and not 20 years. But it could have been 20 years. True. Thanks so much. Thanks.

Perfectly. Anybody else? Hi, I'm Adam. I'm a recovered alcoholic. Yeah.

Adam. Actually, I have 2 observations that I'd like to make on my phone. We need to get to a question as quick as we can though. Quickly. Got it.

Speaking of going, taking people through the work rapidly. Uh-huh. Okay. I've worked with quite a few people and I have experienced taking people through their work rapidly. They have a tendency to get a huge ego, a lot of arrogance, and sound like Chris in a meeting.

Any suggestions on how to And that's a bad thing? Maybe maybe maybe I should clarify. Maybe you should Sounded like Chris at a workshop in a meeting. And and and have any suggestions on how to alleviate that that spiritual pride that I got this shit and you guys don't know what you're doing kind of attitude. And the other quick observation is drug addicts, at least in my area, have a tendency to be terrified to go to Narcotics Anonymous for fear of dying.

At least in my experience, what I've found I'm capable of doing is part of it is knowing the people that I know. I can either direct them to somebody that's in Alcoholics Anonymous that has outside issues in that particular area to take them through the big book and then direct them to NA? Or take them through myself? What are your thoughts on that? Sometimes if I'm taking guys to the work, they're not allowed to talk at a meeting until they've gone halfway through amends.

And they don't talk away the experience, and they learn a little bit about humility. And that kind of silences the ego a bit. And if they're still doing that, then maybe I need to address some other things with them. I haven't had too many experiences with that, but that's one thing I will do. I always encourage people I work with not to talk away to the experience they haven't, because it can show up like that.

Even if they're enthusiastic about what's going on, if the person seems to be doing that, they're silent until they cleaned up half half of their amends. Get a guy directed to someone who's using drugs, who may be in here, has some knowledge about that stuff, and then tell them, take the book under their arm and go to that fellowship. They use a different text, but at least they can give some hope to others who are still suffering. And you know what? If it's uncomfortable for them, I hate to sound rough here, but tough.

Because their responsibility is to go back to their home and pull another one out the way we got pulled out of this ditch. Chris just read something about a guy being stuck in a hole. Well, maybe there's a bunch of NA people dying looking for a solution. And so he or she has to go back there and catch resistance, like we do. Yeah.

And when they get resentments, they come home and write nightly inventory and go back the next day. Right? See, the the idea is that I'm going into this fellowship all alone. Well then maybe they missed something in the work and they didn't really have experience. They've had an experience, they know they're going in with their heavenly father, they're walking into a sordid spot, they're sitting down, presenting a message, and little by slowly, they'll pull someone out.

With a whole lot of resistance, but they'll pull someone out. I was I forget who I was speaking to earlier. I was in Dallas about a year ago, and I attended a CA meeting. These guys are on fire using this text. It's not happening back here.

But these guys use and somebody went in there, whatever they did, they ignited a flame. I sat in a meeting that I could not believe the amount of excitement, enthusiasm, and passion of people who were wide awake in a CA meeting. Better than some of our AA meetings as far as experience goes, experientially where they want. So we sent them in there. Go there with them for support.

Good stuff. Good stuff. Sir. My name is Jim, and I'm an alcoholic. Hey, Jim.

I go to a lot of meetings in my area. Unfortunately, most of them are what I call open disgusting meetings. And more stories up in my area have evolved from how bad it used to be to telling you my experience so that you can identify through the feelings you have. I must be getting dense in my old age, but I'm having trouble identifying through my feelings. Is there anything I could, or you could recommend that I do to combat this kind of thing?

Answer something real quick on that, though. Jim, microphone on. At any stage of the game in this thing, we, we have a choice of whether we're gonna be a part of the solution or part of the problem. And if I see something in a meeting that's where things are going south and things are getting crazy, I can either choose to to to stop it, change it, or just go along with it. And so if you see in somebody said one time, I said, Mars, I think you hate discussion meetings more than any man I ever saw.

And they may be right. I don't I don't like them. I think they're they've hurt they've our our, fellowship immensely. But, I won't sweep every discussion meeting under the rug as of just a a crappy meeting with with the right kind of people in there. In chairmanship positions, those meetings can be highly effective, and they can be okay.

And so my suggestion would be is that if you're in those situations and you see those meetings getting convoluted and bizarre, stop them at your group conscience level, say something, see if you can get some good strong sponsors up there. You have some good strong up there. You have some good strong people in the program to to chair those meetings to keep things back on track, and you'll get things back where they're supposed to be. It but it's really easy. We have this illusion that groups, are formed and then they stay healthy because they're an AA group.

It's like this thing because there's a circle and triangle on the door, god's there. I've come to not figure over the years that I think god's got better things to do than sit in a sick meeting where a bunch of ego and arrogance is flying rampant. I think he'd probably rather be out fishing someplace. You see? Groups can get real sick, and you can get sick right along with them.

So just be alert, be prayerful about the situation, and then make the changes through on a group conscience level and see what happens. They're blind. Good stuff. Anybody? Charlie?

Charlie. Charlie. Yeah. My name is Charlie, and I'm an alcoholic. Hey, Charlie.

I don't really have a question. I just wanted to stand up at the podium. But, no, I'm just grateful for your passion and your enthusiasm, and your honesty up here. And I feel blessed to know each one of you guys, which is also why I can't call you my heroes. But, Chris, you mentioned earlier about a group, you know, quoting from the text, that the AA group is a spiritual entity.

And that just sunk home on me, and I was thinking about that. And I was taught to take these statements and turn them into questions. And And I gotta ask myself, is my home group a spiritual entity? Or is it just a group of like minded individuals with strong egos pulling someone in the same direction? And and keep that in mind about my question because I found my truth in the literature like you guys are talking about.

And then I went to literature based meetings, big book meetings, and I was surrounded by like minded individuals sharing eloquently about the big book. And me and I shared from the big book about Abby and Bill and all coming from Vermont. And little trivia bits from the big book. And we were, can you top this? We went around in a circle sharing more and more eloquently about this text, and I didn't feel that I was carrying the message.

I felt I was just spitting stuff back and trying to sound good. And so when I branched out into other types of meetings, and the question is, trying to carry this message and trying to go out into the trenches, as you call it, and trying to keep in mind that spiritual entity, what format do you guys feel is the most effective way to do business, you know, in this in in our group format? And almost a follow-up to this other question. And, and again, thanks for being here. That's all I have.

Thank you. Thanks, Charlie. I I still believe I still believe that literature based meetings are the way to go. I you you have less the less chance of getting off out in in therapy land, in pissing and moaning land, in war story land, if you have a literature based meeting and a topic that comes out of that book. I I I, so many of y'all have alluded to it.

I I have to repeat myself. I don't wanna I don't wanna paint a picture up here, and I hope we haven't, that what we're gonna have to do is go back in and battle our meetings. I mean, group consciences, these meetings are there, there's some great meetings out there. I mean, gee whiz. I mean, it's like it's like Adam was saying, you know, you got a little guy that's that's 20 days, you know, sober, 30 days sober, and he's working through the steps, and he goes into a meeting and tells everybody that they're doing it wrong.

Well, then there's a lot of people in those rooms that are sober. Y'all follow what I'm saying? Why go in there and lead like that? We're not gonna we're not trying to stir up a bunch of a bunch of stuff. Share your hope about the topic being presented, and somebody will gravitate to that message.

And as long as you're sharing that way, the the the message is so powerful that that you're you're bound to affect another alcoholic. And and when people know that they can call on you and get a positive, a solution filled answer to to the topic, what's being discussed, they'll call on you. You'll you'll you'll find your place in in these meetings. We don't go into meetings looking for fights. And and if and if your if your format is based on open discussion where it starts with who's got the problem, you are absolutely leading with your chin.

Well, what do you think is gonna happen? I I'll tell you exactly what's gonna happen. It's gonna turn into a pissing and moaning meeting, and you're gonna leave disgusted with no solution. Make sense? We've we've we've gotta talk about a step, talk about a paragraph, talk about a line, talk, you know, I mean it's There's so much to talk about in that book about so many different things.

You could never get bored doing it. I mean that's where I would go with it. Charlie. Yeah. Anybody else?

Y'all are fried pies. Yeah. I wanna circle up and and, pray. How's that? Did you have anything else?

Did you have anything else you needed to cover? I have another hand for our speakers this weekend. Thanks for coming and giving them your time to us all.