The topic of "Relapse Prevention" in Georgetown, TX

okay next time just one introduce our workshop chair person and I've had the opportunity to hear him speak and I I really enjoyed it I think it's gonna be real good this morning one thing's like about he's one of those A. speakers that I I agree with them and so you know that helps and just let him take over command of Chris

my name's Chris Raymond I'm an alcoholic

it's an amazing thing you know I made some copies I give at the end of this will be a lie I made about seventy five I figured if we had twenty people show up on a Saturday morning at eleven o'clock right before lunch would be a miracle you know yourself so we have met the five percent these copies but

what James said is true

the people who

the people that

I can identify with what I'm saying

nine times out of ten or

real alcoholics who are chronic relapse hers who have tried every other way and didn't work and I finally went to what we just read it and how it works god couldn't would if he were sought and he got everything else out of the sun and now we do this and so

thank you you know and and everybody else out here I know as a bunch of you in the audience I'm gonna be speaking to the choir for some of you some of you I'm I'm picks to make real uncomfortable

and that's okay do you know this is a cool thing this little workshop dealing ordinarily when I speak from the podium I get a chance to give model story and you guys get a chance to come up after the meeting and taking exception with everything I've said nope that's a cool thing and if you're talking eleven o'clock you know it gives all the other speakers rest we can take pot shots at me that and that's cool too and they will and they will could you see I got this reputation of being a real controversy and and wasn't always like that I used to get my story yeah

for

they didn't get very often because nobody really want to hear what I got to say but what happened was

I got tired of watching people die in this fellowship and I got tired of watching people sit in these rooms inside well god damn I got fifteen years sobriety but I'm I'm contemplating suicide you know I got tired of people not understanding that you can recover from this illness called alcoholism I'll tell you we've got some drug addicts in here you can recover from that too he just substitute the word with what everything I'm saying this morning because it's applicables in this particular sense I don't believe is drugs a drug is a drug I'm not here to I don't believe that **** ask any crack addict he'll take you know I mean this is a joke but I believe in this in the context we're talking about here I think we can substitute everything what we're talking about because it absolutely works November thirteenth eighty seven I

listen to the gym this morning

you know the I. stores were the same I wasn't an artist I was a professional chef and other than that I mean our stores were identical and that and I I I started drinking and in a big shot bars in Houston and doing all the cool things that we all day drink and get back Houston ultimately Galleria clubs you know one is all that neat and I ended up in Lewisville Texas drinking Schaper live

black label Schaper live nothing but the best for Chris Raymer and I and I took a corner that stuff in a bottle of pills that I've been stockpiling for ever

and try to just check out you know I'm an identical twin I have a wonderful family I have plenty of love in my family a bright future but the internal condition was so uncomfortable for me I could not

I couldn't stand it and I'm suffering from a thing we called alcoholism and and whether I'm drinking or not drinking I'm still uncomfortable inside if I were in Saint James on this morning you know that means over ten days and thinking that he set the world on fire you don't even over ten days and but it feels like you've been over ten years because you're you're I mean how much longer can we hold on white knuckle C.

I tried to commit suicide and at the last minute I had my little moment of clarity and I was talking to James earlier we we we we had similar spiritual experiences I believe I heard the word of god said Chris you've never given the fellowship of a a a try you've been around it for for eight years you've been going to hundreds of meetings you've been doing everything that you know would you be indebted to women who drank their coffee you know yet pissed and moaned in their meetings you know you you occupy their time but you but you really never did do with the book ask you to do we just read how it works you never did do that did you know no I didn't I made myself sick that night and I boarded that suicide attempt in the next day as sick as I was I

found my way back into another a a meeting I'm gonna tell you straight going in the door it wasn't an a a meeting like any other I. a meeting it was in a meeting where everybody was carrying big books now you got to hear what I'm saying everybody was carrying big books from the brand new sobriety to the old coot they all had a point of reference and they were on the table and they were ready to use them and it was no opinion sharing in that meeting everybody came out of the but when the big book study it was a at a meeting like a a was supposed to be it was a pep rally we talked about the power of god and it's what I needed to hear because I was so depressed I just wanted to die yes I'm twenty four hours away from a suicide attempt but I'm ready to go back there right now because because because I don't know how god or gods my body not coming apart at the seams you follow what I'm saying I'm so the net meeting detoxing and all people loved me enough to spell out my spill coffee and Pat me on the head inside body you know is that just about coming to meetings this is about working some steps and what we want you to do is we want you to recover from this bullshit I'm a start up right now and tell you right now I've attended class on occasion apologize going in the door it is disrespectful and I'm trying to get better at it

I am better at it

I will try and do it by I'm done doing great okay

those people loved me enough to tell me the truth

an offer ever be grateful to those people and let me tell you something most of those people that were in that room that night are still sober today because they continue to work the steps and they continue to do what we're talking about

Senate earlier them bless her heart thanks for asking me to come do this I took a lot of courage she first thing I remember is the governor of the telephone she says he says that Chris I heard your tape it up I just got to tell you about the ballot I don't like you you know and

he said that after listening to it a while I I realize that what you have to say is I know I understand that I said this I think every time I've spoken the last five years especially I would like nothing better to come up here to this little workshop and say nothing controversial and tell you a few sad stories and I thought I got it in me I could have you guys cried in your seat I it's been a lot of time eating out of dumpsters in Houston Texas I could tell you some sad stories you know but but let me tell you something eleven years sober today my life is poses

I have had a spiritual experience as a result of working the steps okay James you know and and I and I and I can't come up here and and try to pull you with my war stories what I can do though is pull you with the vision of what your life can be like when you recover from this stupid illness you see that's the thing down in the front here I almost wept yesterday when I saw it I didn't realize I guess I've seen it on the flyer but I didn't notice it our common solution is one of my favorite pages in the big book on page seventeen in the big book it's at it we have a common problem and a common problem is one thing that ties together right James is a real alcoholic I'm real about Jim's real alcoholic I moved with my friend right I'm sure the podium with him before he's a real real McCoy you know I mean

pence is inside of a gun you know I don't know what does that you know I just

yeah he's just

how do you know what you don't know if you've never been there you don't understand and see this is this is the platform I'm on today because all of a sudden I'm looking around the room and and it's pretty ludicrous at its absolute absolute stupid of me to think that everyone of us is on the same playing field because we're not you see some of us in this room are real alcoholics

this three four places in the big book rebel Wilson talks about the real alcoholic folks he wanted us to make the distinction by god if you're real alcoholic there's certain things that you must here in order to survive this disease if you're not all the other political stuff in the world might help you stay sober if you can get through this little piece for you with me I think it's the only really controversial thing I'm gonna say up here everybody and a eight is not alcoholic

I don't understand it there wasn't understood in the very front of the book on page twenty

why I happen to have a copy right here

let's find out when you see because if you're the real McCoy if you're properly diagnosed there is only one solution for you it was the books say

the book said god couldn't would if he were sought my solution

is the same as race I got to have a spiritual experience yeah would be nice if I got all this other stuff treated on the side yes absolutely is my life going to get better when I get all that treated absolutely but nothing is gonna change me around the drinking unless it's by god

six this is Chris from his opinion this is not some treatment center crap and I work at a treatment center and I'll take their inventory to this is got nothing to do with treatment this is got nothing to do with therapy this is got nothing to do with process group this has got nothing to do with your app and feelings

this is got to do with the relationship with god period in the statement that's what bill Wilson said that's what doctor Bob that's the combined experience of the first one hundred

you will have a spiritual experience if you are an alcoholic or an addict or you will die you will drink again

I feel so much better having said that I just

I can't tell you just make me so thank you

the tool but the question gets a passionate up there that I get passionate because I'm not lying to anybody I'm not blowing smoke up anybody's but

and let me tell you something folks and we're going to talk about it we're gonna let's talk about it now

everybody says all Christmas are so opinionated about that you see there's other ways to get sober you see but I disagree again if you're the real alcoholic the book says that we have to have a spiritual experience

yep you just happen to be a moderate drinker a heartbreaker like the book talks about that we're fixing to read then maybe you could maybe that little war bubbly bath all the candles can help you

maybe thinking through the drink can fix you

if you have the power to do that but you see the book I'm saying again in three places I can take you to write directly it says if you're one of us

the real alcoholic the man and woman on page twenty one

you've placed yourself beyond human aid

what's a eight

a group of humans in

what's my therapist

what's my treatment center

what's the church

now folks I'm not trying to be a horse is put to death here I'm just saying we're collection of human beings you can all help me but there's not one of you in the I don't care how many degrees you have I don't care how connected you are they can

guarantee me a relationship with god

Alcoholics Anonymous if you pick up if you pick up any any index anywhere

you get the Hazleton you know the catalogs are you glad here you don't look up look up in the the national library of Congress has got the big book under self help

would you see everybody that would be but we missed the point you see because because that's what I was trying to do folks for eight years was trying to help myself right

I can't help myself

something sandy said was Sosa think this morning so she said she she made the distinction between being in recovery and being recovered and and and and and I want to make the same distinction I'm a recovered alcoholic let me tell you something folks I am not perfect obviously

but I'm telling you this the desire to drink and drug left me two weeks into the fellowship two weeks after finally come back eight years into the program I am not in recovery I'm not a recovered anything I just a fruit cake trying to hold on to everything dear near and dear and two weeks in the recovery without sponsors helping a bunch of loved ones just like you guide me hold me accountable I got out of my truck in Lewisville Texas and the desire to drink and drug it left me

it is never returned

I thought if you don't call it recovery I don't know what is yeah we keep let everybody off the hook we keep one to play with these words in the big book we we keep going to put our own funding interpretations on what this means what do you think it was a really meant what this really says recovered hundreds of times in the book I think he means what he says I'm a very title pages have how many thousands of men and women have recovered it means that they woke up one morning and the desire to drink it left

not that's recovered folks I don't care what are they still not cases do they still have relationship problems do they still have other areas they need to deal with of course

man listen I got a step son is driving me crazy I don't know nothing about kids these kids eleven years old and and you know

I'm not condoning child abuse you know but

but I just got to say that I understand a little bit more I'm a little more empathetic with what's going on here you know I'm one of those that used to sit on the meetings and listen to people talk about the kiss is

what you grow up who's the adult you don't you just just just little people no they're not they're not they're little monsters I guarantee they know where everyone your buttons is and I'm having a hell of a time with my yep do I still need to work on this of course M. I. C. N. somebody special on the side I E. a therapist a brown this year

because I don't want to be a bad father I had a great father he was a drunk but he was gentle and kind and I don't know where that stuff comes from but that's not me I I have very little patience with the little guy and I need some help with that

you follow me but six years ago and Jeannie and I got married you know I don't I don't know a lot about being married I didn't know if

I can't see I can't even spell monogamous one of my go to my doctor about it you know I mean I went and I need some help with that I need to go in and and so what's up so do I find a good therapist I find somebody to talk to about that so that some of the women in the fellowship to help me work with it yes yes but I recovered from alcoholism eleven years ago

I mean let's cut to the chase

we got people sit around a adhered in meetings all the time well you didn't get this sick overnight you're not gonna get well overnight you can have sanctimonious argument one killing people with a dog and opinions

where does it say that the big book

bill also had a spiritual experience that Intel hospital working on his ninth step boat he was still detoxing when he had a spiritual experience talk about a little less than two weeks alcoholic number three a little less than a week

already what the steps they're out there working with other alcoholics within the week and we tell these cats to sit around and take your time Mike you're not ready to work with anybody you've only been sober six

god tells you when you're ready folks

god tells you when you slow down and do the work with the sponsor who's had a spiritual experience and you have your own spiritual experience I don't give a rat's **** if you're two days over it's time to work with another alcoholic and addict folks we're losing the battle out there I do clerical work for treatment center and I get hundreds hundreds thousands of people who that treatments in a year I need to tell you this for six years we watched people come to this facility it's a great facility I'm not taking any I'm there's no better no worse than anybody else's but I'm just sitting at a science I've got a this little microcosm that I get to work on it I get to watch it what's the true thing about all of them all of them come to us through a a in a in a in CA all of them come to us through the twelve step movement and they come into my rooms and then they get this look of disappointment when I look upon our walls and they see the twelve step the twelve traditions like a post **** more this

what's up my book I said I did a a it it didn't work

I know you did the same thing I did for eight years you said around the rooms and talked stuff for eight years you you you you set the meetings you drank the coffee you did a lot of other stuff but you didn't actually do what we just read in the book which is called how it works you didn't do that did you

what I did to the best of my ability I just wanna peek was he show me in the book we talked about that the book this is a yes or no question did you start on the title page and do everything it asked me to do it paid one sixty four did you do all three inventories that they're forced it did did you go make all your damn the man's

but are you actively out there working with other alcoholics folks recovery is guaranteed if you do those things it's a promise that the book tells you have you done to work or not

well

no

I think they need to be quiet sedam

I let's look at this thing with an open mind folks I'm looking around the fellowship but I've seen a whole bunch of people out there who've got some time under their belt sober but their powder dry they're miserable

that's not recovered that's that's I'm not saying you're not gonna go through bad times

photo you know what I had a bicycle accident a year ago in Indian hit stupid deer on a bicycle I think I'm the only person the world's ever done that

it was the end and didn't know that dear didn't live either I mean I know it was a tough deal and I was lucky I survived that son of a guy to get a pen sticking out my shoulder to prove it but I'm saying I'm saying you know

why would that happen to me another Kerr the message I mean I've

is life just happens you know why does my wife get migraines who knows yeah yeah I understand what I'm saying what a people die but if people get sick while we go through financial problem I don't know I don't I don't I don't know but can you get through all of that with grace and dignity of course you can't because we see people in the fellowship do it every day but what the problem is I believe I believe is that we just don't hold enough people accountable about this thing you see if Mary's not happy we need to stop Pat on the head and say keep coming back at work we just like once you work in the damn steps that got us to a place where we can be happy joyous and free what you doing the same thing we did you follow me everybody everybody

all we have to treat the women different we have to treat them African Americans if we have to treat the Mexicans get we have to take the Vietnam vets they all get treated different you know the people that were molested they have to be treated different the people that

hi folks stick with me for just a second please please please let me back out of this hole I'm just dug myself I'm not saying that although that's not important it is

but show me the four hundred sixty four pages where it says that that's the key to keep it keep it sick

the book says no matter what your present circumstances it says on page one hundred you're free to get taken to a different place if you will but subscribe to this process god's power is infinite not argue with anybody about that you what I did you did you want to do the same thing to me that I did to you for eight years well but you don't understand we can all do it using my case is different yeah tell me tell me how your case is different

ma'am

we get this great little again this little microcosm that the treatment facility we get to see these people come in and I'll drive another big limo and they just got out of their big jet you know at Moonee airport and they'll come in and they'll the god you know you get out it's just wet pants you know any well yeah you're well you're cool you know she

half a million dollar jet you're still pissing your pants white it's got nothing to do with money doesn't

they go what's in the S. A. you in a little special care unit down there any sit right next to little house watching he's got a wife husband and I live in a little burned out trailer there's no electricity on it and bless her little heart she's trying to raise the baby the best she can you know but but she's eaten a few too many pills you know and she's drinking a little bit more than she needs to you follow me she looked at that rate somebody says they want your money I would never happened during

right he's looking back at her and said Jesus Christ you just got a couple of kids and they will let you live once you lose the son of a **** imagine everything about okay say it's easy to look at

a judge everybody around us to point a finger and tell them what they need to do to get sober you see the bill Wilson intuitively understood it wasn't about our circumstances let's get down to brass tacks here raise your hand if you wanna participate if you don't that's cool too how many of you drank a drug when you had a whole lot of money in your pocket

how many dragon when you don't have any money in your pocket

how many dragon W. lived in a big city like Houston and set yet how many drug read when you live a little chicken bites like Ingram Texas

hello Hey Nathan Ingram Texas but cheap looking for Daddy's I can tell you that

it is small it is not how many dragon drug when you were a great relationship

every dragon blood when you didn't have any kind of relationship

yeah

we just lay there hands up

I think is what we're doing over cut to the chase here you're drinking and drugging is exasperated by a lot of this stuff is loneliness a because of some of it yes it'll it'll it'll make you drink more is is is fear once yes yes yes go on down the road is poverty something yes yes

but did it because it the books as we got to get down to because of the condition what what's the bottom line

could it possibly be that you're a member of a very small segment of this world this just wired different than other people

about ten percent of the population in the world folks is alcoholic I don't know why nobody seems to know I have an identical twin brother that's an alcoholic my father was an alcoholic my little sister who's a year and three months younger than me he's never had a problem with alcohol at all she drives us crazy we always take the guess that Allah go to dinner with her and she sits down and and get your drink you know that you have to get a like a Carta Blanca you know something that can be listed on the Mexican food just said take couple steps and then she'll start the old the messing with the label you know should be peeling the label and she be talking in biz then and I'm looking at Mars and Mars my brother he's looking at me and we're just let you know your body just

are you drink that or not

I mean we got plenty of time here will get you two or three you don't have to make it last may be the the tabs on us break it you know she she says no thank you it just takes a little off

not that I see people with wide like that you slide it back across it tastes it tastes a little better

I don't care if it's got a dead cricket club manager

are you gonna drink it or not I mean if you're not home you put to the best of them just go to

breaking for the tasteful tonight drinking for the experience of effervescence all these other happy we're talking I'm drinking because I wanna get downtown I drink and drug for the affected net right I want to get downtown and everybody would usually we talk about this in a family group and everybody looks reckons scratch their head they kind of teetering hope I think I guess he's funny I just they cannot relate to what we're talking about because they don't understand what we're talking about right because they have the power of choice they believe we should have the power of choice

we are not like them

I'm gonna go back to my original premise if your heart breaker or a hard drive moderate drinker or a modern

turn to page twenty

okay

moderate drinkers have literally giving up liquor entirely they have good reason for it they can take it or leave it alone

any of you all out there yeah yeah really maybe a little girl selling raffle tickets I who knows you know

then we have a certain type of heart drinker now this is what bill wasn't talking about listen to talk about all the stupid drama this is what we got so many kids died in the fellowship they can't get sober right this is why we have so many young adults leaving the fellowship because everybody wants to talk about the stupid **** drama but the drums got nothing to do with it does it what is the books say

then we have a certain type of heart drinker

he may have had to have it bad enough to gradually impairs cell physically and mentally may cause this bug free to die a few years before their time but here it is it was efficient strong E. reason comes along ill health falling in love changement barber warning from a doctor becomes operative this man or woman can also stop a moderate although they may find it difficult troublesome may even need medical attention hard drinker Jim was talking about this morning I think you know this is this what we're talking about doctor said you got a little problem okay a moderate I'll stop for a day or two and we go right straight back to it given sufficient reason it's affecting your health can you stop

you know what's stopping folks

stop you know

my kids yeah we get a little rest and badges and I gave him in the side you don't E. finally get that look on his face and he says stop he means it don't do it again because the funds over with now I'm hurting him now I'm driving crazy so we just stop means stop what's the next sentence right but what about

the real alcoholic

C. boat as long as we got real alcoholics in this world as long as we get real addicts in this world I'm gonna keep doing what I'm doing here I'm gonna keep splitting hairs of this business so that we understand we can recover from this thing I want to apologize one more time if you're not one of us and you think I'm abrasive with this business because I'm I'm going against eleven tolerance and everything's okay in any way you want to do this is fine with me if you believe that that that if if it's working for you go for it but as long as there's people out here like the real alcoholic like my friend right we're gonna keep talking about this because we need to understand if there is hope there is absolute hope for us

god I wish somebody nineteen seventy nine it told me that he keep coming back at work and I did for eight years and nearly died

nobody said this idiot it ain't it ain't about meetings

it's about working the steps so that you can have your spiritual experience the steps are a path to god folks it's not a self help program

let's read this paragraph but what about the real alcoholic he may or may not be hard I'm not a drinker he may or may not become a continuous hard drinker but some stage was drinking career he begins to lose all control of its consumption once he starts follow me

folks this is what a real alcoholic is you go again you could substitute the word drugs and this is what a real drug addict yes it's about control in choice and that's it

period end of statement that's what the book says on dozens of pages it's about control and choice it has got nothing to do with your F. and drama

I don't care how many penitentiaries you've been in that's not why you're an alcoholic

we can sit here right now it's like all you be therapist today and I'll be the drunk and you're going to diagnose me with alcoholism and I'm gonna give you a little information on the site okay I'm here to see you I've just had my second DWI and my wife and I are fixing to get a divorce have I given you enough information to diagnose me with alcoholism

yeah if you see a lot of some of those you need to know this

a lot of service was absolutely he's an alcoholic but she does not with the books said what you need to do is start asking me to call two key questions exactly what the what the book ask me when I'm drinking can I guarantee you every time that I can control how much I'm going to drink my can I go to the go down here to the to little little pond out here really took the garden and we're gonna split a six pack and I'm gonna drink one he's gonna drink one can I guarantee you that every time I go to drink with him but I can just drink one beer

can I guarantee you how much I'm gonna drink every time look at your experience both look at the truth based on your experience

well now I can sometimes you know get enough pressure on their you know good looking woman says Chris you know you'd be a good boy and and maybe tonight when we get home little pokey pokey okay

and so I go out I had two beers I have two beers with dinner and I and I control it but not right if you ask me mom I go straight to their they're not fooling myself because what I do the next night she said Chris that works so well why don't we do it again tonight the heck with you you know it when that good anyway forget it hello

because I'm not drink it I'm not drink it I'm doing it because I'm trying to treat that spiritual sickness inside right okay can you can can you guarantee me you can control it every time no

okay that means you have the phenomenal craving the doctor's opinion talked about now then exactly what we just read on page twenty one if given sufficient reason you can quit on your own you're not one of us

and that right so the nice lady says just exactly like Jim to talk about this morning he said he said my wife said that you need to quit he said okay the love that woman yes if you want to be married to her yes do you have the power to stop on his own

no

textbook alcoholic

in the book does it say you got to go to prison I have the W. eyes are getting fight to rob liquor stores a blackout a picture paints to do anything else no no we're in there there's a bunch of that stuff in the store section in the back but in the four hundred sixty four pages it just talked about control and choice and if you're one of us vote you will never get any better

it's a progressive illness and it will get worse and you will eventually die from it and some of you are feeling some tension in your gut you haven't felt in years

it's like a death sentence stick around your neck

look at this sign right here

see we got a common problem folks this alcoholism I wish I could control it and I wish I could stop when I chose to do it

every time but I can't

so what do I do just keep drinking

the book says you'll keep drinking

are your six Burchell solution and that what it says

that brings us what we're talking about today folks

back in the early days of Alcoholics Anonymous back in the early days nineteen thirty five we came together in nineteen thirty nine we first got the big book published recovery rates for through the ceiling some of this pretty literal give yet talks about this stuff

I want to show you is real quick there's a little books out there that I saw some back on the table back there good book in the big big beat talks about some of this list some of this this information will talk about right now

back to basics Wally P. out of Phoenix great guy talks about this stuff about the early days of a history books are full of it archives you go took a look at the big regular Alcoholics Anonymous conference approved literature a comes of age and up past it on bill bill Wilson's autobiography a lot of the stuff that we're talking about talk about this everyone of these books it explains to us how our success rate was so good back then and what we were doing to receive that success right what we were doing was teaching the newcomers exactly how to stay sober

we have a whole bunch of valuable time trying to explain to people how they can't stop relapsing relaxing it is not necessary

we got a whole industry grown up around this relapse thing relapse it's just inevitable no what's the spiritual experience takes place in god's power kicks in relapse is not necessary the desire to drink is removed from you completely and you go through this world kicking **** and taking names now that's been my experience and the experience of thousands of other alcoholics and addicts that I've had the privilege to work with everybody that does the work has a spiritual experience gets taken to a different place and everybody that doesn't doesn't and the other vocal majority and I A. today they're the ones that want to come up to take exception and make a bunch of them excuses why this won't work

I again am I making fun of your issues know

let me say something first we're gonna talk about this issue because that seems to be the key piece around this relapse prevention fiasco that we're dealing with here because everybody believes that if you can just keep yourself out of hot water to keep yourself out of situations where there's drinking and drug that you won't drink and drugs and I'm sat in a room full of people who realize a hole like that understand that absolute horse crap in that right

I mean I was in the pope let's do this first in the early days of the H. P. again if you'll pick up any of the history books and read this stuff our success rate in the check in the forward to the second edition of the big book it's something you gotta sit on your lap it tells you straight out of the people that came to our fellowship about sixty five percent were getting sober it once

some

after a little in and out trip to find out if they really were one of us are not

have came back and did what we ask you to do and stayed sober so by the time all the dust settles we were having like about a seventy five percent success rate this is published two places in the big book back in the doctor's opinion excuse me back in the in the forwards and back in the back in the last words of the medical profession back in the appendix it talks about it

again the archives are talking about clearance asters booked out here on the table that I noticed early this morning talk about current Snyder then you're a hundred percent success rate around Cleveland Dr Bob around Akron I'm telling you damn near a hundred percent success rate with people coming into the fellowship

you can pick up any archive there is today you can talk to any archivist you could talk to in New York if you can get past all the small talk to finally get down to brass tacks and tell your success rate United States right now sucks

that's a paraphrase they will never say that

but you can get it down and take black and white that success rate United States run around twenty percent our brothers sisters over Houston Texas are experiencing about eight percent success rate right now you guys don't have to be rocket scientists look at your own meetings with your own fellowships and watch the people come and go back out come and go back out come and go back out the group that I sobered up in I was just talking to Scott this morning you know when when Margaret was there we had a little dispenser with a little chip like a bunker thing you just slide chips out you know who wants the chips and every

everybody gets that comes is what is it because nobody stands over

why because we were using our meetings as therapy groups we were using our meeting is process groups we were not using the meetings as pep rallies to talk about god one more time about this and I didn't I wish I thought this up

this is a spiritual program books this is not you know alcoholism and drug addiction is not a behavioral problem

you're very didn't just get set on a body backwards one time and like I said we got them up there to wrestle now I'm an alcoholic you know other than we've we've got sociologist out there working overtime trying to figure out why this is