Dick M. from Campbell River, BC at the Canada Rally

having on our local members just because it's been around here for some time now larger than I have in eighty eight and the

so when I first came in here I became aware that he was around and I certainly it tenet is meetings that time I want to

sure you that my opinion Dick usually straight arms are so I guess we ought to be able to be aware of or something tonight we might be able to absorb some of the things he ready to tell us because I know they'll be all good things I want to introduce Dick

I am here

did you come up please

I don't know just how I sound you hear me back there all right

the motion

Alateen Allen non and fellow a hi Dave and I'm an alcoholic

now I draw your attention to the program at the moment they they say that hi I'm a speaker and I'm supposed to talk on withholding here's a handy features and there I'm not a speaker I don't think I ever want to be

back yeah

do what I can and then as far as having fears are concerned the lie I don't think I ever did

I tried to hand them I talked of the man I moved everybody who would listen and when I finally learned to get out the cause of my fears if there's time and so is it the other day so I certainly do at a manageable level

I also want to make up a point right now yeah whatever I say up here is strictly my opinion I don't wish to change anybody's opinion or improved and have that if you do anything they and normally item may or may not want to do and there whatever I say yeah we'll be whatever they ate a program has taught me and I definitely have based on what a little bit of time and observation finding out what works and what don't work

yeah I haven't the foggiest idea what I want to talk about but somewhere along the line and I believe every red tonight that if we talk about that but I would like

what happened and what I'm right now you can't go to pharaoh

and your via talk about right now is like

I am I don't believe I don't agree on daca I don't think there of any value to anybody I I think they may be entertaining and that read very very no therapeutic value in

and so you get very little rock alongside of me I have always disliked and there I go to a group and and then talk about that I like the dragon how many cars direct and how they can do in jail the next let's talk about same thing on even in jail three hang on and for your interview Klopp cases into a few times off the cliff and then then they say they've had a good meeting and in my opinion all they have done it their misery good in this are the less we talk about the twelve step

and find out

how we can what we made out

and what we gotta do by

there's gonna be no change

now having said that

I am do you think I've got to tell you things are just a couple points of my past that I need to have my drinking stories but in my case I am certain that they set the table for what happened to me later and that is a live alcoholism and I go back to the prairies where I was born and raised in my dad's farm and then made up again the international boundary and because he did lose quite isolated out there the nearest town one direction was eighteen and had only about fifteen and so we never had sort of a neighborhood by ourselves and in that area and in that time yeah we had a movement I don't know whether religious or what it was but they call themselves the holy rollers and they were our names they dollars out of the ground and I thank every member one instance that I was at a very young yeah I don't suppose I'd be over six or seven and they have that one of the few rallies revivals or whatever they call them and there was two jokers they're that old man to me the actor maybe they were so over here only six seven everybody at thirty eight ninety and so maybe they work through all of that but I remember them they were down on their knees and they had their arms around each other and they was pond that character and then straw and I I would not have been night and day and scared to death

and I had never forgot

I was had a we had a family reunion that M. or year year and a half ago and we were reminiscing about this particular time and as we grow older we used to play jokes on these characters and then and one particular time we wish we lived in Missouri valley and that the sewers river run right right by there and they're a lot of them had to use it back on the horse and buggy agency data and the

the line had to cross the water after their servers or whatever and rising and then we get there that did not stop them off the wagon now the buggy whip and and they can either get into the river there are a couple of minutes course whenever that water could have a little bit highlighted wheels vote at all

and we was at

evanescent about this and that as an old friend of mine he here to order an IRA that I maybe I should but I'll tell you the exact rate you said that I can still remember them go stand up on the seat trying to keep their arses drive and use it let me go to the to the lord

get out of that

but anyway

that was that

in that area we we had this I said no outside sources they decided they would have started sending you over at John he isn't and they got attended school going in and then the same type of people was administered them I can remember when sandy that day he was extremely loud and they haven't even stepped roared around there and just after the service add in droves to mountains in full uniform and red coats and then I speeds down around everything these guys before and they arrested administer first not

and if

by that time and I think that that's what they did you keep it and I don't believe that I was ever in a church

other than maybe acting roles or waiting until after I grew up

and the other thing that I wanted to mention that I did go up at least physically and that I joined the service

and a

I was in the air crew and air force and then air crew and then on Bomber Command and as time went on my god over dropping bombs over your band get jacked down then we take a break I've got you here because that's what I got to say goodbye they do it is

but anyway I was taken at

Asian over and check on your back here at least that's where they took it and then I think you're Graham

back not quite a Graeme is exact whenever she started to advance they wouldn't ask Paul interesting hands so that they can just walk and hit

and things got real rap there was no food no shelter no nothing and then I can say that they will always die with roughly eighteen thousand man and we ended up with less than five or six hours and after a month I had he told the guys were Diane and I can remember we've always outside and it was great in the dead of winter and I can remember someone you get after some time he never allowing just whenever they mind if they move they moved and it was like a time thing is the key bodies lay in their half covered with snow and day sometimes I thought they would more stayed there they get out but anyway I survive

and I let it go at that and I thought that that was all the way through it I might add that damn I still stayed there service a couple years after that and then and then I used to drink a little heavy handed

one guy made a remark about me they can do mention day and that's all I said did you have you been to what he'd been through are you going to

and I just love

a lot of free booze out of that too incidently

and so I didn't know it then but I know now that I had more hate and resentment and self pity and maybe their children are

and so when you have a

I mean at all like I did then you can't hear the outlook as follows self pity and resentment is added you can see about where it lead me and they did and I I as I said I will go into L. dumping on but I do remember

find a sober up on my last

and if I have a significant pay one morning and I was trying to hold the top copy with it with both hands and it was slapped over my fingers and a guy was sitting beside me whether he was there or whether you saw me move there I don't know back to

he said that I never forgot his words he said I used to do that but I don't have to do that anymore and I never heard him but I would

and I wiped out of the corner of my eye and if you were a new engagement across the street and I don't know whether the half an hour an hour and a half hours overnight I thank you what do you mean

and there he was at barber and he was packed and I here at that time so he he

pony guy and they're about to come in to see me and I don't see it here back to you could be and then he talked to me for I have no idea an hour three hour you got no idea I don't remember anything you can't eat

some of what he said my stuck in my mind for a day or two and how I can do that I remember the last thing you said you did you go home and don't drink

and he said I will come and pick you up

on Wednesday night and that was on them I'd Monday morning and Tuesday eighth now drinking on Monday was that no problem because I was closer to death and I live anyway and to do as much better but by Wednesday I went back in the driver's seat and I was thinking about going to this meeting and I guess I made up my mind to go or not to go do that now I am that day and finally yeah I had said it wouldn't go

and I had the conversation all figured out you know and when they asked me if I was going to go I'm going to say no and I had a reason

now read about me anyhow and so they did come and days he opened the door and he didn't say nothing so he had asked me to come up on my rest days we had a good and if I never said that he is that this thing happened and pretty soon he could get in

anyway read my prepared speech and I did and I went to my first meeting

and I'll never forget that I I I I went down to that meeting and I I thought this is the end of the road

what in the world is happening maybe down there with a bunch of drunk

and and I get into that meeting and I couldn't I couldn't feel worse I'm sure of it and you know god works in mysterious ways they they they like the new they've got a reliable and then so that the meeting was fall and we couldn't find a seat the other way around to the back

and a dozen times in that first meeting that it happened last night I had to get up and walk past anybody and I didn't have the nerve I didn't have much in those days and I've had a couple of bills and so didn't have any of the three days and so I sit there and there I never forget another thing in that first meeting I suppose you must imagine that lowered

higher power or something and anyway I caught all of that and then at the end

they get up and repeated the lord's prayer

and and I thought now I know a bunch of Bible thumping zone so you know I don't have the part of it yeah I would I would get

and so everybody else would happen that and held hands that I sit there

and then

the boys they knew that they had a real run out yes and so they took me someplace every night

and I don't know I say thirty days but it could have been forty I don't know and lots of times that if you don't read go to pot but they if they get it and I didn't have no boom no bad gotcha so

and anyway they kept me dry and all this time I would need to

for the lord's prayer and I'll never forget those guys they would that they always held hands and and it's due on each side of me they never joined hands it is held about like this and finally the agony

I was sitting there get worse than the agony it did not and so I finally get up and held her hand

and I didn't know it then but I know now my therapy had begun

why good because I was doing something that I didn't believe in it and wanted to hate doing the doing anyway and that's the way our whole program more

you see they they what they wanted me to admit that first step it out now hi No Way island an alcoholic and alcoholic me was good robot no holds no job no nothing no quality me I had this that I had that already got those things and then someone save now hi

and finally

you people

showed me I was an alcoholic

and I learn by you people talking and I I can use you say something and I think oh my god that's the way I feel too and little by little I learned that I was an alcoholic and then I could say I was an alcoholic you see I learned at an alcoholic it's not as good roba an alcoholic if anybody were alcohol interferes with your health your job to help or your home right your health and day and had a job and it had a homeowner's

and help with pretty good that thing around the house could be better you know because my my thought you know I've already set up with the current issues in this type of thing by thank you all right but anyway hi could you give a little measure of it out there and the

little by little I learned I was an alcoholic

and they and I would say the course but I could see that you guys get me to close when I when I first heard you people saying those stories out that my my wife flew around Helen talking about me and then I could think about I never told her anything and so then I figured that you know maybe January and maybe maybe I have an alcoholic itself I get that hi good there's order come to grips with that but then we got to that effect yeah Hey Hey you know I have

that restarted a Saturday anyway I can't think of the first words of it

they came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity and I thought about that for a little while

and you know to be restored do that make you departed from

if you people are hurt by here you made me mad yeah at U. C. I sobered up in a in a in a city that has Canada's largest mental institution

and I worked on occasion we gave me over there Hey then people would not you know he's a I'm like that you know I I didn't know at that time that that that half of those people over there and fight their brains with booze and drugs and all sorts and and that's why I would come to grips with that either you know I I have not that you know the stormy Saturday as an insult and so I I I I used in those days I used to think why had walked in they had there over my shoulder because I was always walking on the

but I I didn't I didn't think I was an alcoholic and I wasn't insane and I course step three this smacks of a region

and he do with it

about that time add

we had a little Mister minister he was a pastor of a church forty fifty miles out and they ask permission if you come to a meeting or two to help his congregation yeah he might add a drop or two out there who I don't know but anyway he commented that he kept steady for two years

and they often said he said I came to help my congregation but I stayed to help us out and of course at that gate will in this two years that that that he was there at I got to know anymore out indicating I drive out talk to him and and then I I wouldn't have anything to do with its first three steps but I knew that you had you know action on board and so he got me going on that any course at typical alcoholic addict you guys had a good job with this you know and so I remember that right

ya Allah my fourth day

and I adhered my right did not care pages up the right again then you know I just couldn't do anything but a perfect job and then finally I I did get out of him and and and Hey he read this here we learn through it together and I took my first step with him that I've ever had okay I can't

but it was the best they could do at that time and that that's what I've always learned you're always saying when a a go with what you got that drunk and then I forget but nothing more than a daca but that's all I knew

I didn't have any idea in those days their four step is not ready so much of what you've done right and that's what we're digging for and that I had no knowledge like that so I have made some sort of a beginning and it as time went on my

I couldn't

I couldn't get out of the driver's seat you see I would get these high is that they have a a you know up to three days and and then I'd fall off and the dogs on this depression you ever imagined and if I did it for weeks and I could never understand why that way and if I know now why you see if you're like me I didn't come to a a because I wanted

I come because there was no place else to go I had been described as a marriage counselors and ministers and nothing was wrong with my paycheck I just couldn't depart

and and that I was in a real dilemma in those days back I still thought you should be able to figure this thing out

and there I didn't know in those days we don't have an intellectual problem we have an emotional problem over which the Italians had mighty little control and I can tell you something the emotions have a lot of control over the intelligence that is why I would in spite of myself I would say never again that set that out never drank again in two hours two days or two weeks I would do exactly the same thing with the same regret and remorse that I had the time to full and that's all I did I did get done with you highs north fear and insecurity and I had no idea I know now that I've been here all my life

and I even long before I had a drink and have booked ours is a fear insecurity that we believe is the root of our problems now if that is the root of my problem as an alcoholic what is that do it make me self centered and it I'm self centered being fed me that self

and that maize as an alcoholic I never get enough of if I got a good one or worse than that right or something and I throw it away you wrap yourself now I owe a rates rise in the things that I wanted I wanted some peace of mind and didn't have and I had no idea this was the part

and so at

you come and I say this have a several times out here you come and you keep coming and if if you're like me in spite of it yourself it worked you see just like just like yeah

when I do that the whole hand in that first lord's prayer I had to do something I didn't want to do and the whole program is like

and you see that about this time you know I agree to the jeep the Great Depression and I'd Monet anybody who would listen I talked to my sponsors at what you do how to get out well I think you're going to have to let go and I never let go on the line I knew what happened when people let go and I'll get back to that March across Europe there and then man they do like gold guy and the man who didn't like ghost eight and so you wanted me to let go here nine going to get things going and so I've struggled to figure this thing out and no where in our program disaster figure out anything I don't **** to understand anything yes says that and aposs

and when you have done that then you will understand but you don't

and until then he will

and so I can remember the these depressions and I I would stay in them long enough and I I get so that I couldn't sleep and I got taken after four five years in the program but I tried a eight eight eight four

I know now that I was learning to talk tell

but I was learning nothing about walking the walk

and I can remember my own response to you know have you been around quite you know quite a few years in those days and he said well you've got to put

and great No Way

but he said I learned that I do I found out that I had to

and I don't think I believe in it to my feet and I wouldn't do that you know and death itself it went on for months and I got the idea of that I've tried a a and you know something that I got to see it here that I thought more of suicide in a day or more than I ever did

before I got here

you see I came

I expected to find something in there were nothing there is nothing there and I don't know how far

because that was talking the talk and I wouldn't do the things that I have I was actually the program asked me to do and I would I would sit there and do it I had to understand the issue all my life I had been taught you go to school you get a diploma and then you get this to you the current matter you can give insights and an eighty eight they they say that a cell

you do with the program

you gotta get out of the driver's seat

and ask them to give you an do this type of thing I was so full of fear and I I wouldn't do that I also know that St Pierre saved my life because I would be in the aid program and I know that I don't

but I think back to those days and I knew what happened to that guy click and so I couldn't leave a a and I couldn't get a an hour you know to have directed the dilemma and I give him a mile with mantra you know he that he would say well you got a pretty

and I wouldn't pray beg borrow for five years you see I got to the point where I couldn't sleep and I remember

walking around the table one night three four o'clock in the morning and there

I thought of what he said and so I went into the bathroom and I locked the door and I didn't turn the light on and I got down in nineties and I I can remember to this day the booze grills and stuff out of my legs and I I was just

you know and I'm sure I didn't think

and I thought that after this tremendous effort what I believe is something that I don't know what happened you see I was finally driven to my knees had nothing to do with spirituality and I finally learned to that my attempts at prayer I can remember my sponsored ads email your brain idea

and your regular yet because that would do it Monday then next Thursday and maybe we can they do with retirement one day you know and there

I couldn't get onto it

back

little by little

I finally did I had to learn that plan had nothing you during your prey had nothing to do with spirituality it is exactly like down on the whole those hands I had to do something whether I believe it or not

and getting down on your knees and tried to say something I would not I don't remember saying whatever I said I have no idea but that was what was happening and what was happening you see every time I've done some of the some of that pride of the alcoholic please be in but you being destroyed and then there was room for something else through again in our whole program is like that if you do the things that the program pass and you are to lower that price or destroy that Friday you know you become

and then my little I was doing this and after a while and I would pay a lot for her in the end and earning we came out and my brain and I say yeah

and everyone's not asked that it every once in awhile I'd make a little effort by allied lawyer and one day I got fan and a regular basis

seven eight years but I finally got through and then I've got a lady asked me again

you know he never did

it took me two years to figure that out he didn't have to you can see by my attitude

that I was doing

and you see it become apparent you see that the algorithm the person so affected is the last to know and that this was the room with the way it was on the road in and it was the way it is on the way out of their way out hi how are you how you would rate it how you like and I I was getting better and I didn't know

and yeah

so I I I want to once I become a little teachable and got him to do the things that I like being forced out of the driver's seat

and I was starting to do things more or less automatically and and I and I did ask him and kept calm and in spite of me it started to work and live I live half things started to change

and there there is a time when on why I could do these things and then you see

a list of all persons who would harm

and became willing to make a man's

you know at

no man you know and this is this is this the same thing all over again I I wanna use the phrase that not a big guy and you think this is of course but I didn't get along with her it could be your mother allow anyone else and then I had to go and apologize to her and I was just in an institute what would you think in order to have you told me it don't matter what you think is not who they think it's cute and I couldn't understand that what's the use of apologizing the somebody vehicle are accepted but you see me going in doing something that I didn't think I should do I need to do I had to lose pride do it and then the big on identity there is there room there are more I did a little more room for things to roll in and then a vinyl my attitude changed and I have no idea when they started to change I just learned after a time that they have had thought at the pool you know at something it usually really set me up arms that you didn't didn't didn't have enabled I have no idea when it happened when it changed its history and you see that's what I said in the beginning here at about handling your fears I never had my ears the more I tried to handle my fears the worst that yeah and when I get out of the driver's seat and tried to get at the cause of my tears the fears no it is P. I didn't have the figures I'm sure I can say now that my peers are down to normal levels alcoholic there didn't invent anything yet defects in cell we are going to be a hundred percent sure that it's only when they get out of hand that their property and so I yeah I I know now that that that's all they listed defective pancit resentment anger self pity intolerance we can talk about them and we're green in the face and change nothing and as we get at the cries of why

I am thank you why am I jealous why many in town you see all of this delay is the result of the problem

never problem is fear and insecurity lack of self worth and if you know those things until you do the things that the program I asked you to do and your self worth yourself yourself esteem is being returned and then the thing don't ask don't bother you like they used to and then the the thing just on a longer path and I I still have

have a sort of a tongue and cheek attitude you go to meet and I say that okay let's talk about resentments tonight

you can talk about resentment three agreed and the I changed nothing you talk about why you're resentful and do something about that I think we definitely just disappear one day and so I think the whole concept of that of that of the program is not the way I if he needs it how I feel that way and so when we work at thank you because of our pocket and get away from these results it is so obvious to each other and we think that that I could do something about my insecurity or if I can do something about my anger I think he's going to help them

if I don't find that because of my anger and my resentments my insecurity in a statement

and you know yeah I know now I've said already that fear insecurity lack of self worth and you do the things that the program math and little by little you build up your self esteem

you can walk in this world you know any good as they're no better than any other human being alive

and that was a completely different feeling yeah I came days back in almost anything in the world except that

I think you people regardless not to drink or how to do something I had no idea

but it turned out so very different

there we are we record the car hit the prompt

and forget about

why I feel the way I do

and you know you know you hear lots of speakers down I'm here you know and say you know there's no guarantees in a eight

at you don't know who's going to get it and who am I and I disagree with I'm absolutely satisfied and pleased to learn to use gay

one the first one is your guy did you get

if you work the program and to you're guaranteed not to if you don't then we can put ourselves for a long time

and so I think in a a and hurt

and as you're getting one who had no idea what what bothered me finally I was forced to do the things necessary to make me laugh there was nothing I don't know anyway nothing I wanted to do then when I heard

we were bad enough to do it it was worse than doing the things that make me laugh and I got very hesitantly but I don and little by little thing changes and what changes in them

nothing back the six inches between the

your attitude and your self worth

and when that changed path that's all the rates change you ain't gonna get rich you you ain't gonna get very smart guy I sure can't pay many that claim did either one here I was and sticking with it the best program that ever was written right at my fingertips Hey take me ten twelve fourteen years to get through a quarter of an inch skull campaign very much intelligence on that school

and get back to you you do get mad and peace of mind

and that and how it works I think that just about sums it up here we come out there with the the place where

what I'm right now

and there is heart gives time and I've always when it comes to someone is that right I got a report of the father John gill

now he was that if I did that then one of them formals

authors and lecturers of eight who ever existed and if W. people I don't know who he is he was the first Catholic priest that was in a

and that back in those days right yeah and

the bishops dot that is that they're they're father didn't drink

and so every time a parole

John got into trouble why they throw in the mental hospital

and that man had been filled in

nine different medical institutions and one of them he may declared absolutely hope

and during this time that he'd be in the world that is the that they have the power to to reach you may take it away from that they right owner drive a car for the rest of his life is taken away from and after we come out of one of the metal institution that sort of cash around and see what search for table John

and finally one of them would say well we will try take John in one of these he got he got to ask the minister and one of them one of the congressmen wanted that at

church members yeah I think the right way have you jumping about a

and he over heard him talking to another man and he said adding his books he said naturally interested when somebody talk about alcohol I I list and that he learned that day that was an alcoholic and they would do something for me to come to a meeting and al route there John said yeah maybe I'll go along and maybe I can help them with that was that

and so he went and he rose from there

they're one of the foremost next Eurovision and the states okay as ever

producer in my opinion and he wrote that your body without antibody and beyond the fourteen golden books he had thirty four records out and that was before the eight tracks and their defense were invented and I had all the records and they were telling the story

at the end that one of the speeches and a lady came up to him and he said how could you do that

and he had his answer to her made my hair stand and stand on and when I first heard

he said I didn't do anything god the eternal

and here at this particular time I like that please let me ride the driver that dynasties over the try to get the program and I didn't appreciate

and now I know exactly how to me how can I yeah take any credit for what happened to me

I had no idea what needed to be done

so now I can say an hour since two

I didn't do anything glided up

and

that's about sums it up now yeah I'd like to say we're dead the new people are are are they nearly new people and they came days yes I did and they expected to have

you'll get something out of

and then for the first few days you know you than that Hey remember where you were last night and day and evening of that statement of it and get through it or they'll bang on both sides and so it thank you bye

but after a period of time

that falls off and if you're like me you've been in some sort of a depression

and that I think is the reason for that you are an alcoholic seem to have a constitution that we can learn something the hard way

and day we didn't come days because we want to do and we're not going to learn anything because we want to

we learned because we have to

and so that's why we fall into these depressions it's time to look for answers

you see when you hire on that high we don't need any help man we're just passing along with their detailed how to catch in the ground

and then I believe there's a reason for that I believe that god gives is a tiny glimpse of what the program can be like

but something for nothing is worth nothing in our program in place and so you're not going to get IT here going to get a feel threatened here's Andrea go off you fall off and you look at the depressions and you what you're doing down there you're looking for activate only when you're hurt

would you be looking at nearby then like me you are learn to follow directions

and little by little you'll come out of the phone

and if I I think the new people are told that that there is a price to pay

you only paid a portion or part of it when you come Dey you're going to get the answers because you see and my book this program is priced at get saved my life no not a and and none of us had any more than one we don't have to need to kick around

and so you're here now for god's sake don't you don't grow

you have the opportunity no need not fail you come and you keep up

and then a violent

and I would add something there on a regular basis when I say a regular basis because that gets hard after awhile everybody can come to a few meetings but after a period of time when we get no great joy and they need to get becomes all hot and the self discipline necessary for it to come to a meeting when there's a show would like to see your biggest friend there we get visitors that's the thing that we got to overcome there is nothing more important in your life and your well being

and use it like that

and you have a girlfriend

they will be behind you a hundred percent if we have to come into town the guy got to go and the Afghanistan

well I I I hope that that

I've said something

that that'll help somebody