The 28th Gopher State Roundup

thank you very much

in

thank you very much my name is Dave and I'm an alcoholic

what a privilege to be here in fact I told heather since I am introducing her tomorrow night that if she would say that about me I would say that about her

but she didn't what she didn't understand when I ask her to do that is I'm going to follow that tomorrow night by saying and heather has a self honesty problem

it's a pleasure thank you for the introduction how to look forty hearing you tomorrow night it's a pleasure to be here what a wonderful converts you know in fact where four thousand people used together where I hang up a hung out we called it a riot or drunken brawl so it's really nice to have four thousand people here for another purpose

thank you so much she's been our hostess in Ann Arbor I much appreciate your being available calling writing doing everything possible meeting us there at the airport offering to show first around to the largest mall in the world things like that I really appreciate it thank you Pat

my name is Dave and I'm an alcoholic

you know what I live for forty years three months and eleven days and I didn't know I had a disease

I thought I was just need to try a little harder you know what I mean by trouble or need to change a little bit need to up to say a different touch address different to to to to to to do things different working a different job be married to a different person

I have a different girlfriend before that you know if I had you know they just hadn't been that way I did not know when I walked into a treatment center in April nineteen April twelfth to be exact nineteen eighty eight that I had an illness I thought I was not trying hard enough

okay the only relief that I had to the feeling of not being what I needed to be for everybody that needed for me to be that was when I drank

and when I drank I became what I needed to be

not what they needed me to be you see I had I didn't understand this thing called a disease I had no idea in fact my counselor clearer gonna she said do you realize you have a disease acid no I don't I really don't and you know what happened to me while I was in that treatment center for four months and then I went to a halfway house for three months you know what happened to me I call it I could give a guy in room two ten it was the most amazing thing everything you see when I got there the first day I didn't have it I'm truly I didn't have it was just a little slight problem little slight valium problem in my case it was nothing to be just twenty years every four hours I mean what's what's the problem

and okay I drink on top of that okay what's the problem with that I mean a okay I got drunk okay I got in trouble okay what's the problem

just a few misunderstandings will sort those out

you see when I got there I didn't know I had a disease and I'd like to talk with you tonight if I can about the disease that I have because I think it's so important to understand that every day when I first heard that I felt ashamed

and now that I've understand that's what I have I'm very grateful

you see without the disease my fear and my thought was I would wind up in an insane asylum or dead

I really had no clue where I was going in my life what I was doing in my life or if I had any option to do but what I was doing in my life I sat down on Saturdays beautiful Saturdays a little late I lived on a lake at the time and every Saturday for two and a half years the last two and a half years I drank a drink for twenty two years I would think how it's going as I got drunk I wasn't thinking how I was going to drown myself the next Saturday

it won let me today I mean it is going to accept she started out yes we started out way out there you know six months a year and then it was gonna be in a couple months and then when things would really go bad it was next Saturday in towards the end it was every next Saturday and also take a fourteen foot little flat a John boat and I was going to take to fifty five pounds on the blocks and tie them together with rope and I was going to take my family members out on this boat to prove to them that that was my news anchor the problem is the boat would do this because the you know hundred ten pounds worth of anchor the boat away like I guess twenty five thirty forty past winners but it you know that was my thinking it made sense and then I was going to tie that rope on the very deep part of the lake and I was going to throw it over and I was gonna let it pull me down in his own time to my left ankle and then I was going to try to breed a scuba diver I could see the bubbles in it I would be in a casket

it's a great way to wind up your beautiful Saturday

you know I was in the casket causes cloth and you have a the casket top has a little spiral stuff it looks like a sunburst of material and in people's hands would come around never could see their face but I'd see their hands touched the casket and they say things like poor David if he had married that woman he married a man a good man

four days if you don't have these children just begging for every dime you can make always needing something he would have a good life for David he didn't work for that man he worked for for the last twenty two years ago he would have a better life after about three or four such poor David's I'd wake up

do you know why I realized I hadn't tied the rope right on my left ankle you see had to tie the rope so that I nobody knew I drown myself they had to be an accident double indemnity insurance payments and all the good things you have to look after yourself you know saying

I have been a true story I when my son was in Boy Scouts I volunteered to teach them a note not not tying classes I was trying to learn all the exquisite not so I could figure out how to make it work

so when I got to treatment she said I had a disease I thought no no no

there's no disease here

maybe a little bizarre

but no disease

I called it it was the guy in room two ten I'm convinced

and I'm glad I did you see when I left that that particular place what I found what happened to me was that I was able to discover

a life that I had hidden from myself

I must say that one more time I was forty one years old when I left there and I had lived for forty one years in ways and places and things that I had basically buried from myself and I had to do that to be fine I don't know if you have this here in Minnesota but in North Carolina has anybody been born in North Carolina other than and I I know we're both from North Carolina but if you haven't let me tell you what what a situation we have in that state when you're born in our state your spank this by state law

if you do not smile spanked yes thank you for interpreting Patti appreciate that spanked

if you do not smile

if there are other words like that just raise your hand will will try to get through the

but you know you hear spike and if you do not smile the doctor is instructed under law to spank you again until you smile and say I'm fine how are you

I'm fine I'm fine I'm fine thank you very much five thank you thank you at the thank you so much heather how you doing I'm fine thank you I'm fine I've never seen such fine people in my life

I'm fine I'm fine you see in the only way I can be fine is not to look back the only way I can be fine and so when I got to the treatment center and I got involved in my first aid meetings I'll never forget it I saw honesty and also people telling me things about themselves that I knew but had never admitted to anyone

you see us all hope that for me I also hope that I had a chance I don't know about you but there's a there's a section the big book that defines my illness is absolutely to the T. and it's on page sixty two and it says selfishness self centeredness that we think is the root of all of our troubles driven by a hundred forms of fear self delusion self seeking and self pity we've stepped on the toes of our fellows and they retaliate seemingly without provocation but invariably we find that at sometime in our past we have made decisions based on self

that have come back to hurt us forty one years old I had made a lot of decisions based on self I didn't know why I did that I have no clue why I made the decisions I made truly did

and what I've learned it is a disease you see hundreds of forms of fear I don't know how you feel fear but I feel fear right here and when I was a little kid when I was about six or so my mom and dad took us over to an aunt or uncles I had no idea but my brother Larry was in the backseat of my mother said on the way over there she said now now to children she called as young and that's another north county's term young and that's for children young ones don't you talk when we're there don't you ask for one thing because I don't want to answer to say when leaving called me my mom and my dad come back here which does mean younger age would never come again

now the next thing I remember was sitting on a stool or bench and I'm sitting on my hands I'm ever sat on your hands but I want to touch anything I was out in the hallway and all the parents were in here the adults in a while smiling is the I started to do it that day I don't know if it was that day but when people would walk within ten feet of me I'd say how you doing I'm fine I'd start smiling and shake my head I don't know why I shake my head you know I'm not Japanese and and nothing bad data I'm fine how are you a fan of it in and I thought you needed a no I don't anything

the first thought I had to go the bathroom that day so bad I was afraid to ask the guy will never forget that

and I got in the car and the first thing when the doors are closed they said goodbye said mom I do am I gonna be invited back to did I do okay I don't know if you know that fear

but it was in my life every day

hundreds of forms of fear hundred forms of self delusion I don't know about you but see my fear to me drives this whole concept of of of thinking I heard a guy named Joe I have to give him credit nineteen eighty eight in in a downtown Atlanta or Dallas use me at a meeting at the downtown Methodist church and he said alcoholism is a disease characterized by P. remitting thoughts I thought he meant this way and I want to consult with the mattress he said this way see the pyramids come right out here

here's how they come let me talk I'm sitting my office good morning how are you I'm fine how are you doing I'm I'm glad to be here good to see you

my boss walks by and I say good morning don how you doing he doesn't speak

here goes start first off when the White it comes real quick starts real quick one of my did speak to me check it out he must be upset with me third thought was that project I gave an estimated like that project portal he's probably going to fire me

so

at ten o'clock I'm fine how are you good to see how you're doing on five ten oh one I've been

I had left my office and left with this

the same place

now I don't know about you but I'll start payments off of pyramids wealthy farming

what am I gonna do I have to go to the unemployment office Donald ray avenues to get an unemployment check and I'm already thinking I got to drive down get to know and love never been to the unemployment office

good employed for twenty two years and he just figured out today that I don't know what I'm doing

it's taken twenty two years for that to occur

and then I'll go if I can get an unemployment check then I have to go by the day marina bread store and buy day old bread for my family

what

good how are you doing to the one on fire to the one and a half I can't get an unemployment check and I'm bundled

I haven't left my office

now here's what happens if somebody walks in during that process and says good morning David I'm thinking you know I'm I'm down at the unemployment line now how you doing you know what I'll say I'm fine thank you how are you

wonderful way to live

you know get in the shower I've been it's got a little red spot on my head Thursday morning starting another typical great day

scratching this old pimple on my calf right here for those of you SO my calves so this it's right here

now I'll get a shower and go out and I'm dressed and ready to put my socks on a sit down to get my legs crossed put masak on a look at that temple Michelle red circle around it now because of stress it two or three times here goes

I wonder what that's on my calf

it's infected it's got a circle around

it's not in it I bet that's a tumor

one of his return where they don't cut my leg off right here

no no the doctor I go to hell cut off right above money

then I got to go get a prosthesis now here I am Thursday morning seven fifteen trying to go out and just deal with the world and I'm worried about getting a prosthesis

I thought only did that was the bad thoughts I was in the shower when I first got sober I'll never forget that morning I was home in a country and western team and I don't know what I was doing that because my life was going along pretty well and sobriety at that time but

I guess I need to my co dependent specs that morning

and I was humming some tune and I got out in the next conscious thought I had standing in front of me shaving was where am I going to get a tour bus

some of you been down that primrose path

if you haven't been let me take you there

I'm humming country and western music that sounds pretty good

heather five practice a couple times I could get a couple guys together girl we have a band around ten weeks we can get pretty good what the national tree grows what a national will get an agent will get in the tourney will sign a contract and will go on tour and then we'll need a

tour bus thank you very much

every thing in my life was filled with fear and self delusion I took exams four times before I took them

if you know what I'm saying

I mean everything had to be thought through and everything had to be just right and this is important on March the twenty second nineteen sixty six I went to a little place called the RAF's Geller in Greenville North Carolina I was a freshman in college I'd never drink in my life I was ninety

and I went in order to call Pabst blue ribbons I don't know why order too but I did

I guess what I did one at a time I drank them

and guess what happened

that thinking stopped

for the first time

in my life that I could remember I was fine really you know I mean what

Hey how you doing

yes yes good to be here see there are so many people there that needed to hear things I had to say

I did not know there was such a need in the world

so I went around and just told him I could dance and singing I told jokes I was moving

and then they had a thing called last call and I didn't know we had those things but I told my could cuss it can I come back I didn't have that permission and I did come back

for twenty two years

and then I would sit there on Saturday morning thinking of house going tie the rope around that fifty five pounds on the block

because I didn't know how I got from Greenville

in sixty six to there in eighty eight but in the house

I don't know how I would sit in my easy chair the chair that we went out and spent so much time model recliner and I looked and looked and we tested and I didn't know that to bring that special chair that we have all kinds of discussions about and bring it into the home I did not know I would be sitting in that chair passing out in urinating on

in coming to the next morning I didn't know that

I don't know how I got the

I didn't plan on that one

had no idea

I didn't know when the doorbell rang why would get out of my chair with nobody was in the house and I crawl on my belly through the din and get into the hall and close the door and shake like a six year old kid prayed the customers will see me drunk

I don't know how it got there I don't know how I could set up a system with my thirteen year old a seventeen year old my wife two sons and a wife and what we did we set up a calling system because if they are on the house and I was drinking I wouldn't answer the phone because I had to call me and let it ring six times hang up and call the second time it rained ring twice I never had a problem with that nobody called in between time and I'll answer the phone then but they had to give me a signal I don't know how I got here

is he the only place in my world the last two years I drank I felt safe was a six foot by seven foot bathroom let me tell you about my bathroom

it's a fine bathroom

add a louver door

locket heading in saucepan sells a closet smoker my children beg me to stop smoking so I told my would in one of my drunken stupor and I had to live it out by not smoking in front of them so I go to my bathroom and smoke it's a great way to be honest and up so I got my bathroom I go in and sit down you know it had beers I've had beers on the celery carrots and lettuce on high beer and pot luck liquor bottles and had him anywhere could I wore jackets sport jacket and I put in my pockets and I will come back so they couldn't see him and what down to the to the bathroom like this so they would hang it up and I'm just going out I got a good bathroom I know my children the last couple three years I drink thought I had the worst case of dysentery anybody they'd ever met I was in the bathroom all the time

because I'm going to sit down and sit my peers and I have a seat you know I bring out my magazines and had a cigarette up on a magazine rack attorneys all spent on I'd like his cigarette at Papadopoulos on the beer sit there reading a newspaper by myself how much better could you want you know so

just how much better condition nobody can bother me there nobody could call me I'm in the bathroom people that do I'm sorry can come in the bathroom it was a great excuse

how did I get there

hundreds of forms of fear hundreds of forms of self delusion hundreds of forms of self pity

self pity on to talk about that one when I left the treatment center my my our counselor and then must temper sponsor and my sponsors Keith Allen and and many we spoke together last year here in Minnesota and but he said to me you know he said I want you to to go home and enjoy your family don't fix your family

well I have a seventeen year old and a thirteen year old sons and let me tell you about what happened while I was gone is a great time to enjoy my oldest son threatened commit suicide he was busting holes in the walls of our homes with his fist I don't know how I missed the two before stud but he just kind of pension out wallpaper in all in all he had to push the windshield out with his fist and hit it for his girlfriend's car from the inside out and the police were called he was under peace warned to not go in our yard ever again and you know just a couple of nice things

and he said go home and enjoy them don't fix them

so I did I went home and what I realize is I never enjoyed

and guess what they never enjoyed me so I bought a ten thousand joke book by Milton Berle I still have

I think moving by one smart and I would only way home from work on the rest of the jokes and I come in and say well listen listen I heard this one tonight tonight tonight sometime to tell the joke and they would look at me like

this guy has been in a month in treatment in three months and a half way house and he's going to AA meetings and he's telling jokes

but you see we never let you know we left in our home he he he was a laugh from here up we never belly laughed in our home those who waiting for the next year

was waiting for the next year you know we saw the arguments in our home Yahoo yell the loudest in the longest one

except that our younger son Scott he was a runner he would get his bike and he run he just we never saw me stay overnight I mean to come home get a pair of underwear leave again I mean it's got to go we're gonna charge against we call it's these yeah he's staying with us okay he just left he was thirteen

the point is I got home to try to to to help them enjoy themselves and I tell these jokes and finally they would laugh so I go back to the bathroom about the bedroom and I changed my clothes and I'd say the real loud to practice so you could hear me not come back out and I say here we go again tonight and I thought well they started to laugh a little bit not at the jokes but the fact that I couldn't tell them

and it was very good for me is very good for me now the fourth day I was home I had been at work in ninety days and are a little bit over ninety days and I just had a job or not so I I was a little bit anxious it was Sunday night about four o'clock Monday morning be exact and my son was playing a seventeen year old he was playing the stereo in the TV had a all wired up pretty loud in the Dan and I was trying to sleep in the bedroom if it'd been totally quiet probably couldn't sleep in the bedroom but I went to the then to use my the work I had learned in my mouth twelve step work and also in my mind treatment I used the concept of sharing feelings and needs

and I will do my son with a speeding one moon said David I need for you to cut the TV and stereo down I'm feeling very tired and and and I've got to go to work in the morning and I'm very anxious about that and I need you to cut it down could you please do that if he looked at me and he said I'm not gonna cut it down you can't make me

I gave it my best treatment process yes it will no no you don't understand my needs and I need

I need you to cut the TV down and get he jumped up and he got right in my face I mean this far and he's like six five and I'm six two and I'm looking at my son like this he went boom boom boom boom and he started punching minute gestures and I'm not going to take me down and you can't make me

well I lost my treatment motif at this point

and I knew what happened see I figured out there on the spot you know what happened I don't know for a hundred twenty days or so my son took control of my house you don't send it took control so my job is what to take

so I started punching him and I said you gotta turn his TV don't notice my TV I claimed on my property back otherwise must

smash social you alone on this is

mmhm

and then he yelled at me the loudest I've ever heard he said I will say what he said but he said you alcoholic you've destroyed my life get out of it

at four ninety three days a call myself an alcoholic at meetings this was a bit different

no one in my family had not with the disdain and hatred he had

and so for whatever reason I didn't hit him

and that would have been normal you see that was normal

we pushed we we we reclaim property is my property is my space get out of my life for five or ten minutes

instead I went to the bedroom and I started crying

you see I had started to come to believe a little bit step to this process of treatment recovery is going to work for me and my family that's what I was told I believe that a bit and when I realized right then it wasn't working

so I call my sponsors by four thirty

I said good morning to wake you up

yeah I love it he said and I said well you know my son just did to me he said what he said as he just yelled in my chest and you just call me on hold

he said well aren't you

a civil yeah he said well then you just called your what your I said but nobody was punching me in the chest and he was yelling at me and screaming at me he said were you punching him in the chest and yelling and screaming at him I said yeah but he provoked me

wrong word to use

Hey so I tell you what I want you to do he said I'm on the phone and he said I want you to go back and tell your son is where's the US cities and then I guess it's still really loud in here he said go back and say David I'm very sorry yelled at you and I'll try not to do that ever again

and then I want you to say David may I have permission to hug you

and I want you to hug your son

Hey

Hey thank you Keith I really hate

I am so I am so sorry I woke you up

okay given sorry will you sponsor of that was understandable thank you so much Kate you see I knew how to handle stuff like that you know you handle stuff like that you know what I do I did it forever I just wouldn't speak to him for two weeks

I'm saying could walk down the hall they say good morning dad and I just look straight ahead like he didn't exist which set the table and and it's a pass the potatoes and I would get them almost to his hand and set them down

and not look you see I'll show who's in charge here it was about control

ask him to permission to hug him thank you gave

I took a shower I was first one at work that morning I got there about five fifteen

it's very important because when I went in there by myself I realized I was in the room the side of the liquor locker where I'd still bucket for years from the German border I knew exactly how to get in it I knew exactly how to start stealing I knew exactly how to fill a bucket with water

and then I realize this explosion occurred hundreds of forms of fear hundreds of forms of self delusion I was math pyramids were going crazy

and what I realized was this past some unknown way that if I didn't go back and do what my sponsor said I would need to take that drink because the pain the pain was just too great

and for whatever reason

I left that office and went home it was just at sun up and my son was pacing in the backyard name is David as well

and I walked over to him and I said I'm very sorry I yelled at you know please hear this I was scared to death

please here that I didn't never done this to myself

I was so frightening I didn't know what to say

but I was gonna say the lines my sponsor gave me and I think that's the beauty of sponsorship give you words when we don't I don't have words

and a different view

and I said I'm very sorry yell at you I'll try not to do that again and he was really angry he looked around he said what

said

I'm sorry yelled at you and I'll try not to do that again

and I said son may I have permission to hug you

and he looked at me like I was in utter total stranger and in fact

I was

please share that

and he said okay

a six five big data is the seventy five on the phone I was two and twenty five pound tackle six but about tackle football team and I walked over to him and I didn't touch him you know how you hook people don't touch of you know just you make sure you know

can you make sure you're not touching anywhere L. okay okay

okay and I guess in United's I'm thinking okay you know what I was thinking I put my head down I went home man you know what I was thinking must sponsor is full of bull that's what I'm saying he gave me these two lines of said both lands I'm doing what he said to do and where do I go from here right all I can say is I was on the okay sign it's been nice and put my tail between my legs I've lost control of my house whatever so back to control

and just as I started to let my son go just that second he grabbed me and he hugged me

and he wept

and I could grab him and hug him

and he said that I'm very sorry for what I called you this morning I'm very proud of you for trying to change your life and I want you know I love you and I'm trying to be as supportive as I can I'm very sorry

and I said son I'm very sorry that you lived in my home for seventeen and a half years and not one moment of one day

of our life together have you known the without alcohol or drugs in my body except the last ninety four days I'm very very sorry for that I had no idea that this would be my life

I said can we start over he said yes we can

so I said to be honest with him I said Keith my sponsors the one who asked me to do this I want you to know that

because this is certainly new for me and we both agreed that they would start talking more honestly with each other we talk about feelings we never talked about feelings so he's on the call case a win back in about six thirty is key to wake you up

and David so you want to thank him so forth and so on and he thanked him in and then keep it he had to get up and get ready for him to go to school I think and

and a and a civil case thank you so much she said no you hang on the left of the phone a minute that's okay and so guess what he said

they said David I want you from this point forward to sponsor your children your parenting is about to kill

it's a great day for later on on Thursday morning

I said what do you mean he said I said what I mean sponsor he said I do not want you to tell them anything else they're thirteen and seventeen you've given more information they can they can actually assimilate and more opinions and I can probably assimilate in their lifetime in their children's lifetime

so I want you to stop doing that you do not need to tell them what to do how to do it they do not need your advice and I said but I've given good advice he said and it reminded me of stories my son was sixteen he's had his best friend's car broke is a transmission automatic transmission and he came to me I laugh now because I have to he said did you know anything about transmissions are sort of course I do because I've had a few drinks just a few belts

insys proceeded to tell him what's wrong with this transmission

the only problem is I've never worked on one

so he proceeds to go up with all this new found exporting information Intel the mechanic his own work on this transmission what's wrong with it and my son told the story later I overheard it I didn't he never told me he was so embarrassed because the mechanic looked at him and said what joker or food told you this

in front of his best friend

so that's the kind of advice I day

I always had an answer you know me but I don't have one I sure could make come up very quickly

that was a kind of advice I gave

and he said I want you to sponsor me do not tell them anything if they need you they'll ask you a question if you don't have any experience with that then you refer them to somebody else in the program if you don't know anybody in the program that expands your firm somebody outside the program but if you don't know anything about it tell model have experience with that they don't want your opinion they don't need your opinion

nori advice

and I said Keith I'll have a hard time awesome because they'll never asked me anything they don't want to hear what I've got to say what do you what is that real quick he said well great that party to watch over anyway right all

he was quick

here's the point

that one thing has helped me and with David and Scott unbelievably I have not done it perfectly I don't do it perfectly last week but I'm doing it better

and when I can let them be them you see what I had to understand is that that hundred forms of fear self delusion in my life I was giving to them

that hundred forms of self pity I was giving to them

I didn't know that but I never let them enjoy their own relationship with a power greater than them I was the head relationship

and that's what my sponsor told me you've got to let them find their path and if you have come to believe second step if you admitted you are powerless first up second step you've come to believe in it you're gonna make a process or decision making decision to start the process of turning your willing life over step three then you're doing it with a power greater than you they got the same power they don't need you is their power

an interesting concept

for the next several years it was very hard to let them go

it was very very hard and in fact my oldest son did not ask me anything for almost two years

and he finally came one day he had a financial question

and what a glorious day

that one's place here that you see I felt like I went from being a parent to going into a desert

and what happened in that time frame and I think this is really important my alcoholism my disease myself seeking my hundred forms of fear for them I mean my my thinking and my son left in the car he was in a ditch you know you had a reckoning was because he was home fifteen minutes late and I had a date somewhere drowned in a puddle of water I mean

when we get home and be all angry about it you know it it's

he didn't know what his problem it was my problem I am posted on

and so what happened in that that two years is that allowed the program not at the program allowed was of great help with the sponsor in meetings me to let my son go so he could be returned to his dignity as a human being

you see what I did in my activities what I did for those forty one years seventeen with David and thirteen was Scott is I stripped of their dignity as I did my own

in my job was to let that go

I can make amends the best by sponsoring the

not by becoming their parent I tried that route road in more

my youngest son Scott we didn't start over immediately took eight years

like we were in another country I was working in consulting work there I took him with me he was very angry had

flunked out of college drinking unbelievable stuff had to kick him out of my home ask him to leave tough singer bread it wasn't that there was a day it was a three four thirty in the morning party that

prompted all but you have to leave I'm sorry and you look to me that afternoon in the sun said and he said dad he said is it possible for us to start over like you and David did

and I said we sure can

you see it's their time not mine I had a perfect twelve step program worked out for them

gosh I knew exactly what they should be doing

but it's their time

is there to

my marriage didn't make it I lived in it for a long time two years ago we never could start over never could the pain that the scars perhaps were too great