Steps 3, 4 and 5 at the Carry This Message group in West Orange, NJ

now like to introduce the guest speaker for the month of March we speaking on steps cubist bigger step three four and five

and that will be accuracy from Harrison New Jersey

hi am chariman of a holic

okay

I just messed up my hair

okay

okay

just take a moment and get silent for a minute stop thinking about what I'm gonna say just talk in fact

okay

seven three four five which I could feel like days with that stuff

you know what now I phone him forget it I we left off last week and I was talking about my experience with that too you know and that step two on my real experience of my real north they really strange but at a deepening of that experience happened as

as I got sober and adds a

as I continue to go through this

you know

there's a lot of different

factions in a a when it comes to the big book of the steps I mean first of all there are some people who don't believe in the big book there are some people who don't necessarily work the steps but we didn't people who work the steps and read the big book and do the stuff that is a big book different factions those people who believe that you need to go through the steps ones are people who believe that eleven ten eleven and twelve and the people who believe that you can continually go through the steps and that sort of a lifelong process you get better at it as you go through it I'm one of those people like I believe that it's through continually going through the steps that

and it's like a refining process for me

I and that it as I continually go through the steps they gain a deeper understanding usually an experience with a step forward as I go through a round of status I like to call it

it's a week or even we could be like months later when the impact of what I learned about that process really comes to me it's not always when I'm actually doing the work but it's one I'm applying what I learned in doing the work that I that I seem to get the biggest breakthrough when I'm not looking there's a wonderful teacher and I'm going to pronounce his name wrong but its technology Han

R. and he talked about being talked about dish washing you know awakenings and that is in washing your dishes or it's when you're putting away your laundry or when you're going to the supermarket that you get this bright insight into

a clue as to you know where you know what's really going on within you

so when it when I'm when I'm gonna talk about is kind of

okay an accumulation of what I've learned about step three four and five

step three

you know made a decision to turn my will my life over the care of god as I understand him well let's clarify one thing and I know you've heard this probably billion times I don't understand god

I don't endeavor to understand god because when I try to understand got I just confuse myself

so so what you know like a lot of like a lot of people who had long term experience with that I just I prefer to re write the steps because that's what I do I do that a lot anybody who's been through the book with me I rewrite things because it it works better you know

you know I re read the big book idea and I re write the steps to turn you know turn made a decision term I will in my life to care about that I I don't understand and I'm not even gonna try

and so when we when I talk about that decision

for me it wasn't a one big decision I mean I what I made a decision to work the steps and in essence doing that is turning my will my life over to care of something that's greater than myself which is the process of the twelve steps in the fellowship about god's honest recovery program that walking on and

so in essence doing those during this definite sense is is is a turning my will and my life over the care of god but in reality up until I started to do a fourth and a fifth step in until I looked at who I was I really don't know what my religion I don't know what my life was so I was really turning something I really didn't know much about something I didn't really know much about it I knew I was going to die and I knew if I didn't do that I was going to die I knew that I was unhappy and this was a way out it was a crapshoot I mean when I really look at it when I talk to people especially newcomers about the steps and about the program that called in on this and make it really clear I'm like listen

okay drink drinking equals death right alcoholics commit suicide we do stupid stuff we you know we're not the smartest people when you can so the chances of leaving an alcoholic living while drinking for an extended period of time after having come into collision on it it is not that great I've been around a for almost a month in a row for thirteen years I've been sober for almost nine years and I've seen a lot of people are

so it's been my experience that I have a holic who drink usually done usually die bad too so drinking equals death and then there's the steps which is a possible maybe solution to what's going on now with with that with those two possibilities of course I'm gonna look for any way out that's what I do I'm an alcoholic you know I look the way out an easier softer way for me to steps work you know so when I was presented with the idea of going through the twelve steps and I was presented with an option an option that although it seems quite unlikely that doing writing something in writing about my life in a piece of paper going back and saying I'm sorry for the sorry a thousand times before the horrible thing they did I didn't understand what I meant was I thought that my story we'll get to that but the point was that you know

but

I didn't really understand I didn't on but it was it was kind of it was beyond my conception how doing just a few simple little things could could change me so much

you know I had no idea I mean I really didn't I thought it was like a class exercises called homework you know I knew that if I did my homework usually pass my exams and then when I didn't do my homework I failed miserably you know I understood that so when I was when I was presented with the steps like I've I've I approached it with I guess with what I was already familiar with like I I I look at it as an assignment I looked at it as well obviously because textbooks that was good I look at it's something I need to learn about or I could try you know it's sort of a trial thing if this doesn't work I could not do them anymore I don't really understand the whole thing if you stop in with your stuff you drink

stopping midway through this that is never good you're better off not starting them stopping in the middle because you're in a lot of pain I learned that I was trying

protests for stepped out but the point was with that when I when I first approached the steps when I first approached third step I didn't really know that I was making a third that decision I wasn't really given much of the action I mean I was presented with drinker dying and I think all right this you know

and for me reading a forced out with

was a better option than dying you know so when it when I really understood that I had made a third step decision when I had really understood that that I was making or had made a decision or is leaving on a basis and this is the way I like to put a living on the basis that the decision I made a term I will in my life in the care of god as a reality

I mean do you

in here but I mean that's what it's about for me because I don't believe I don't believe in fishing I hear people that all the time even bigger covers and I want to bang my head on the table I took my will back

okay one

how do you take it back

I mean like it does it does it have a fishing hook to it online did you cast it out there and really back in I mean I don't really take my will back I live in is going to be his or don't

you know I mean for me is that it's it's kind of like a white but it kind of simple because when I look at it like I'm taking my will backer I'm digging my heels and I dig my heels in I'm in I'm in a human being I'm an alcoholic I have character defects as well part parcel of being human being and you know and I'll call holic so of course I'm gonna take my heels and put when I'm motivated by drinking or dying

you know that I'm going to

my heels up and I'm gonna do what I have to do later on after going through the steps to handle at times last modified motivated by the fear of pain no more and death and more motivated by by what I feel from going through the steps such as peace contentment joy you know all that wonderful stuff that that are that the people promises but the point is is that

what was my point I've gone somewhere with that and I lost it the point is that when it when I when I think about the third step the third step decision there's a lot of different parts to it it's not as simple as a lot of people like to make it seem and it's a process and a lot of times that process happens as you go through the lab the latter part of the steps you know so

I cleared that up right away that I don't believe in fishing and that I don't take my will back but that's not how this works I align my will of god I don't give my will to god

there's a big difference a bit but never really actually said give your will away align my will with god and that's in the ten steps but you know the point is is that

because it's such a multifaceted process process is a process and it took me a long time and I'm still learning

what what you know I'm still learning with a lot of the big book man I mean I can read it backwards and forwards I have a photographic memory and as long as my book highlighted so I'm able to like really pull out pieces there and I and I've read it for so long and I've presented the big look at workshops for so many years you know in my home and now that I'm I knew what the words meant and I knew what

I knew the script that was supposed to be said when you talk about the third step and I I knew the script in the second step the first up you know I understood you know for your inventory more you know I understood seven inventory four columns five columns betting how you set it up whatever I understood that but the deeper implications of those steps to spiritual this spiritual learning that goes on the prices of these deaths

it changes over the years and it gets deeper and if we get very subtle

in the first the first few times when I realized that I was living on a basis that wasn't my own

when I was living in and and in a place where I wasn't dominated by what I wanted

all the time and I wasn't controlled by fear and I felt like I had didn't remotely reborn or felt like I was a different person

when I felt those things or when I began to live in that in that place

I didn't really know what was going on like I I really didn't know that it was as a result of doing the steps I didn't know that I had made that there's that decision I just did what I was supposed to do I showed up I double my sponsor told me to do because I didn't want to die

and as as

as the benefits of the program and the twelve steps which is the king of the removal of obsession tracking that was nice as those things began to fall away some deeper things came came into came into being and one of the things I'm one of the first part the third step

he is recognizing yeah

is recognizing that like run on self will could hardly be success

you know

I still after a couple four steps believe that I could that thing should go my way and that only people should behave

and I kind of use the program and a lot of ways to

to get other people to do what I wanted because I played like a good girl and I followed the rules and you people should too because you know you work the same program I do

you know that's what I thought I had no

I still believe that other people should hear my morality

you know I had a lot of resentment

resentment inventories were low on back then but the point was is that a

you know the first part of the third step is recognizing that life run on my own my own terms myself will could hardly be a success that all being collision with somebody or something you know and it's not until eleven step that they promise you that you're not what the test at the time she not to fight the lives that they promise you that that you'll have new energy

and that are that you will be well I'm going to paraphrase here the you're not gonna be worried about the little things and that you're not going to you know run to extremes in in your emotional life yes is somewhere between three and eleven you know I learned that that life

run out my way could hardly be six that I saw the evidence of that my fourth and fifth

you know what I really learned about that when I read it when I read week gnostics

you know what I am gonna mess with people here I don't think the third step well the third in the second step

restored inter twined linen and a lot of what's talked about in the third step or in not in that whole like after part of the big book I think it's page sixty six because I have to re read that every

at least once a week I got a when I'm fighting something I think somebody should do what I want I try to read those pages to remind myself who I am and where I should be allow god to do that **** today but

you know in a week not six it talks about self sufficiency

you know it says that that basically we're presented with an experiment to god experiment you know and that that we can either try to experiment and believe that there's a power greater than ourselves could respectively and take the actions that are needed to

you need to take in order to maintain sobriety and get that sanity

you know and that's experiment you know you you can do that and get what we had or you could not do that and do what you always do but there's another part of that were talked about self sufficiency and that self sufficiency failed and how

and how

basically we and I try to live based on what I thought the world should be and I put everything around me and I never surrendered want to what it I was never present in the moment I was always in the past I was always in the future and I was always spinning my wheels and I never really got anywhere

you know when you talk about that when they talk about the the eight points of the unmanageable life

what they're talking about they're in in the week gnostics when it says that you know they were unhappy that we can't be useful data we have to print more depressed they were fully self pity and of course I'm I'm paraphrasing again because I've gotten to a place where I stop quoting the book from the podium or trying to quote directly because I want you to read it I'm sure you have because you're here but I want you to read it I don't want to read your paper for you but I want to tell you where to look and it's right at the very end I think it's page fifty two of we not talk about the results of living like based on self sufficiency so I'm presented with the evidence that life based on self sufficiency Campion success so when I get to the third step is to talk about making a decision my will and my life or to hear god the first thing I have to recognize is that life on on my own well it can't be a success and that I'm not god

because somewhere along the line my entire life I was always trying to control the situation I was always playing god I was making demands either out loud or mentally I always have expectations and I was always trying and I got a quote that I love this and do it save the world and we see that movie I'm the only one who watches the best internet like movies

in case your save the world he said and I quote that I'm always trying to carpet the world rather than wearing slippers

and for me that's exactly what the third steps about

is that I want to change you to make me comfortable because I don't want to be threatened I don't want to be afraid and I don't want to look at me

and the basic idea here is that online and full of selfishness self centeredness dishonesty in fear

that fear drive my bus most of the time

and that

most of the things I did when I was drinking and a lot of the things that I did when I was sober I did because I was being driven by fear a lot of things and this is part of this is another thing and I spoke about it last week about self loading

you know and I said that that part of

what would be the intense amount of self loathing that I had in the in the first step was when I realized that at that I was powerless over alcohol and that I had this craving and had this mental obsession and I had this spiritual reality and that it wasn't a moral issue

you know because I really believe that that I was a piece of crap and that I was the reason and I am but a whole different kind all right but I personally Kerry was the reason why

why I was so miserable and why I was ineffectual in my life and why I wanted I just wanted to die I didn't want to exist

and when it when I learned about the first half and I realize that you know I wasn't drinking and I was defective why was defective in it in a different way that I wasn't defective because I was a bad person I was defective because I had a disease if you want to use the word affected but I don't like to use but

when I when I came to when I came to the third step

it says that it was driven by a hundred forms of self selfishness self self looking

enter this in here and

I need a lot of the decisions on a lot of things I did in my life I didn't do because I made a conscious choice to do do it but because I was driven by selfishness of dishonesty resentment of fear I add a couple

so when I when I learned about that in the in the big book and talked to me about that I realize that a lot of the things I did a lot of people that I heard that I loved I didn't want to hurt these people I don't want a lot of people you know I didn't want to be the person I was

and I really kind of believed even after I learned about you know the whole drinking thing not really being my whole

I really believe that underneath that that I was still like this horrible person and that all the decisions I made and all the horrible things I did in all the places on my drinking brought me over because I deserved it

and when I learned that you know I had to spiritual illness and in the in the big book it describes you know when it begins describing it describes it and the doctor's opinion that touches on it and we cannot and we cannot describe the full throttle you know in how it works when I learned about that this

when I learned about the spiritual illness I began to realize that even more of the

of the responsibility that I took

for the decisions that I made as in carries a bad girl

where is based in an exaggerated grandiosity

and out what at what the ad showing Harley like to call pride in reverse

you know it's kind of the idea that in in in how it works to talk about talked about as being powerless over selfishness

as much as we are over alcohol

and in the force that the talks is being talked about as being a powerless over resentment

as much as we are over at the hall and it says so about fear

so unfortunately or fortunately how everyone look at it I'm just as powerless without god

over his selfishness of resentment and fear

and as I am over alcohol

and when I when I saw it when I felt that and when I realized that I think that a lot of

a lot of my will could could go

a lot of my desire to live came back you know I think that

I think that for me I live for a long time with the shadow of who I was when I got when I was drinking

and when I came into the room I still felt like that person was going to come back and I was waiting for signs of her like every time I did something close to what I used to do it would it would freak me out and I was shaking my boots and I would feel dirty and disgusted

until I realized that that my cat on character defects were just great just as I was just as powerless over them as I am over alcohol

and that's why the third step when he talks about life on her own self will could hardly be success it means that if I'm trying to fix me with me

I'm screwed

and that's right that's exactly why the third step starts with that and then it goes to that whole explanation of the actor more time to get so caught up in the act of taking yeah I do that I mean if you like people to manipulate people you know they don't even realize what it's saying to me

you know and that's exactly what you know what he says to me today

you know that

that I can't fix me with me and I can't take my way through my own character defects and that's why I have to make a decision to turn my will and my life for the care of a power greater than myself something which I don't even understand

because there's no way that I'm going to be able to rationalize my way out of my own pain

I have my own short sightedness and my own fear

so

that's kind of what the third step means to me a little confusing a little strange because I'm kind of a weird girl

but

check your head might I am but

but for me it made sense you know I can tell you logistics you get down on your knees you say a prayer you do with a sponsor you make a decision to continue with the work and that's what it's about

you know but there's a spiritual power beyond the third step that I didn't comprehend until I've gone through the steps a few hundred million times

you know it took me a long time I was not one of these people went through the steps once it was like I understand the thing I've cracked the code I would like one of those people I mean I used to be able to get myself half the time you know I mean I just I was I was ruthless with that thing you know

but I was you know so

when I when I

when I realize that or not when I realized but based on the idea that I'm as powerless over my character defects or self which is called self

as I am over alcohol means I have to take a good look at what's you know what's going on here I mean the big Bucks spend are from doctors having actually forward two week gnostics talking about the first day I mean I went through in detail I mean it talked about every possible aspect of insanity craving mental obsession and all kinds of other stuff it went through great detail of the first up didn't I mean I think it did spent like sixty pages something like that I don't count my goodness

the point is it's been spent quite a few pages talking about the first

and then you know it says all right you're broken

you got a problem here

what you gonna do about it

and I put a lot of energy into looking into my first up I mean I I drank for

nine years that's not a really long time so many people but it was a long time for me I did a lot of dumb stuff in that nine years a lot of work to my first day

now realizing once again how powerless so I am over myself

I take a look at the fourth step and it means that

I got to go over and just as much detail

the four step of V. extension

and the tapestry I like to cook the tapestry of my powerlessness the big book refers to are like being you know threaded through here like this corrosive spread so when whenever I can get a four step I think of it like I'm weaving tapestry I use a lot of images you know and I can help me to remember stuff at

but that so when it when when I when I'm looking at this I'm looking at the tapestry of of of my own my own powerlessness over myself you know and when I wrote my four steps you know I yeah I wrote I wrote for different types of four steps I've done every different kind of formative for the seventeen their inventory I haven't gotten to that yet I got I got out of there is like the seventeen area inventory that I've seen and I kind of got out of the whole compulsive for stepping before had to write that one thank god

I averaged from the time that I started doing for stuff you know and I started getting into the work or the program faculty anonymous which was roughly between three and four years over I averaged about two to four four steps here

I'm very glad to say I've only done one here

yeah but although I'm still working on it

yeah

but the point is is that so let's just say we can say that I've written quite a few four steps I I'm not sure that I can vaguely get the number what we're gonna say anywhere between eight and twelve okay welcome I'm really compulsive you take as I told you I'm a slow learner with the stuff you take anything that makes me feel good and I do it all the time I mean I hate people yell at me and they're just like white writing that a person can you just pissed at that thing a month ago I'm like yep with highs going away

it may be like well you know you maybe need to look at and I'm like no I'm doing the work

so

I have a lot of experience with the force that

and

I think it's the best way that I can explain the four step without like a I mean without giving their details in the mechanics which you know read the big book I've been there I didn't know that then I thought they were three columns to the force that the first time I wrote what

I didn't get any better it was all about you yeah my parents mostly but

you know and I wondered like why repetitive until I wrote another for stuff like two years later you know but I was trying to do just that

but I'm

the thing about the four seven of course we know that

that is about

that taking responsibility for for who I am what I do you know because when we did when I have a responsibility I talk about two different kinds responsibility there's a spiritual responsibility and there's a guilt remorse self beating flagellation responsibility I always had that one because that one coming up the hill because the the spiritual responsibility

because if I'm worthless and I don't have to actually do anything do it and I lived in that worthlessness for a really long time and kept me safe account me from having to take responsibility

I think the nine night I have I made a lot of like really interesting you know parallels my life decisions and I hit in a lot of different things and that was one of the things I hit it so when I when I talk about the responsibility of the force that that's what I'm talking about you know the spiritual responsibility and you know most of us are reinforced with no without it you know you know there's you know for different kinds of mentors three depending how you do it there's many different types of formats and you know you know you can find all kinds of cool stuff but that's not what I'm here to talk about

you know what I learned about the first third and the fourth step with that I made everybody else but god my god

pretty much that's what was all about still if I'm telling you I hated that is still my port that they don't like me

no would you like me I'm not good enough it's fun I'm in the middle of doing right now one right now and I'm on you know what monster and I are going through and I can well because our schedules are really really hectic and I simply I wrote three three columns and she helped me write my fourth she says are written of course that the other rationalized

you know it's really good when you read in the fourth if you know exactly what to write in order not to take the responsibility responsibility or if it

but not only paper you know and so she's helping me write my fourth call so I can

be a little bit more

a little deeper you know me a little bit more humble and it's always the same stuff it really is really about me making everybody else my god

but

one of the things that I hate and one of the things that I I kinda love about being sober and that and having had a spiritual awakening is that I can know what living a spiritual life looks like and I could know what depends upon god I mean sure dependent I'm not talking like three fourths or one third one of those fractional depends on god which I like to practice we're not absolute reliance upon god I know what that looks like and I know what it feels like but I also know that it's difficult to maintain for any extended period of time even for the Dalai Lama a little miscarry cosco has just got to accept your limitations here you know I don't levitate I'd like to but the point is is that

you know I know what that looks like and I know what it feels like but there's something about the humility of being human and accepting my mind like the limitations not reveling in them there's a big difference between acceptance and reveling in my limitations I used to revel in my limitations typically I cursed because I'm limited and I give you the figure could limited you know yeah and I enjoyed being nasty mean and surly because I have limitations not what I'm talking about is accepting my limitations you know and being humble about it which is something that took me a long time ago do I didn't want people to know that I was human I didn't want you to know that I couldn't actually bring every single principle of this program into my daily life every second of the day

I didn't want to end so much so that I became so close down emotionally and I couldn't communicate with other people unless it was like you know how to be a higher spiritual plane you know and I hid behind that for a really long time and if you're in the program long enough you know exactly what that is

you know anybody's been sober for anywhere between five and ten years knows exactly what it is you know what you're supposed to look like you know how you're supposed to behave but inside you really don't feel it feel it and I was stuck in a place for a really long time

you know and

part of going through the process now and what I'm learning today is about out about being more real

you know I'm being carried and not resisting who I am

you know I'm sarcastic kind of my sarcastic and even a little demented you know I'm twenty six of course implemented I hate that you know like I had like they put like this like two million or million year old soul you know I'm like my in this twenty six year old body give me eight years of sobriety two kids and a husband and like I'm like twisted you know I'm like I'm like I'm like missing Little Miss responsible housewife and one in and I and I and I I'm like I like serial killers on the other end I mean it just doesn't

it doesn't you know I listen to tool you know indigo girls and you know I do yoga I mean look under the total

I'm mixed up you know with kind of the point I don't resist that anymore I'm not trying to be somebody else and that was something I was trying to do for a long time because I mean everybody else my god

you know in the third column it talks about the seminary's itself that you people affect you know

the first column which you know talk about who the person is or I like to call the jerk used to be the A. hole but I'm getting better today the jerk what that your date and your defected me and my precious little thank you and of course what I did as a result of what they did yeah

I got better but I'm

the third column there's ninety seven area so what you know self esteem

I'd pocketbook sex relations personal relations

yeah ambition how can I miss invasions always impatient ambition is for some security invasions occurred you're always on my on my list I was to get them

but anyway so then there's the seminary's itself and what I learned was that or my what my mom couple most recent trips to the step without a chance with that I thank you people to provide that for me

my expectation was that you should not upset the apple cart

my self esteem your character defect should interfere with my

you know god forbid you mess with my personal relationships and certainly don't mess with my home

you know and I

and I realize that I carried on around a lot of resentment of fear because I wanted other people not correct you know the big joke about you know if they can do carpet the world rather than wearing slippers with I mean everybody else my god and I never really want to god asking for this thing

can never really went within a set you know I want you know I want

to to live a good life that's an ambition isn't

one I ask god for the grace to do that

I don't have the money I'm tired of hating myself going

you know the one god to allow me to see myself the way I really am could I have Kerry dysmorphia you know Michael Jackson has body dysmorphia I have Kerry dysmorphia you know I don't see me for who I am I really don't I'm either like the most really a person on the face of the earth on Hannibal Lecter well he's brilliant but you know so but the point is is that I mean the mostly a person on the face you're there I'm nothing there's no in between for me there's no there's no being normal there's no being ordinary I you know I resisted being ordinary my entire life

because I felt ordinary was a defeat

so you know when I when I'm looking at the third column and I realized that I expected people to provide security to provide love you know love has nothing to do with me love lives within within each one of us I believe

you know and love is a part of god and if somebody loves me it's not

you know there are two things that I that I that I learned one that somebody loves me if not then let me but god

and to most the time people Love Me

they're loving how they see me

not necessarily who I am

the only thing on the face of this earth that can truly Love Me for every single

particle every single

bit of me if god

and if I expect human beings to provided that on she couple love I'm just setting myself up for disaster

you know and I'm not pessimistic about it either like I don't walk around on

I mean I do but I'm not supposed to

it's more along the lines that I didn't know that the people who Love Me and people were in my life Love Me as much as they're capable of love means sometimes it's a great deal I mean I personally feel very loved in my life more love than I've ever felt

ever I mean if you can make me cry for talk on a hate crime reporting from Michael talk about the point is I feel extraordinarily love degraded in my life

I realize that the real love that I'm experiencing isn't a love from a person to me but god love god love within me

you know and that love that I feel I can carry with me that's why when I'm at school and I think about my husband and my children I feel love