Steps 4 through 9 at the Road to Recovery convention

but are you ready yeah got some questions for you come on

when are we stopping

it by no time we're supposed to stop

at three thirty three forty three thirty okay all right his first question as assignments have

twenty after three

as a sponsor should you talk about each item on your sponsors for stepless or should you just

this listen

thanks

Mari our translator yeah

well it's it's subjective there are times if I hadn't

the the guy that I did that who's fifth step I heard who thought that he was responsible for is his the sexual abuse when he was a child if I hadn't hadn't talked to him about it neither one of us would have had that then important experience are there other things that I don't think need to be talked about there was a guy who who called me up and said he was going to take he was working on his fourth step and should I

I don't know if I should put the the police officer who gave me this the the drunk driving ticket that got me to a a I resented the cost me a lot of money but on the other hand I happen to get sober because of it I said oh yeah put him on the list yeah

because I know that when we get to the part of that well where was I at fault what was I to blame you know that it's pretty obvious and that's what happened when we got to that part I just looked at him you know in any new that that the reason for that resentment was because he drove drunk so sometimes sometimes the person who's inventory you're doing we will realize where he was at fault and in it'll be resolved then you don't need to talk about it other times I don't think you talk about every item on the list sometimes a self explanatory and sometimes a repetitive sometimes somebody will have the same resentment against seven or eight people and and if you've mentioned it once you just go bingo bingo there it is again there it is again you recognize that so it's just it just depends and and what I've found is is just asking for guidance before you start the inventory and before you start hearing as a sponsor the Noam

there are a lot of list

that are used besides the a a book

to work the steps what do you think of him there again I think they

that varies I like to use the book but as I pointed out the book in my opinion at least in my case and in the case of many people that I've worked with resentment fear and sex doesn't cover the things that need to be in the inventory where was I dishonest now where was I self

a self righteous where where was I selfish all those things up apply to other defects and manifestations of self

and so is so even the big book you know who didn't cover everything I needed to cover but there again I had done the third step and turn my will and my life over Anna and I ask god's guidance and I was able to put down the things that needed to be done so that when I got to my eight step

the list was complete in fact the list wasn't complete I had to go back to my eight step and make some and add some things that weren't in my inventory

but the list Hazelton has a list has a an inventory with a lot of questions on it and for some who are who are like I was when I first talked to stand and said I don't know how to do this I read the big book I read the twelve and twelve and I can understand it fortunately I got I got somebody who said you know tell me about the motor manual tell me to do it that way some people say it you know how to use a cookbook you know I do it that way but but other list and there's a big big what highly structured group an Alcoholics Anonymous in California very very similar to Alcoholics Anonymous

no I'm just kidding actually they're they're part of athletics and

and and there and you hear people in that group talk about my sponsor gave me those seven questions as if the seven questions are in the big book which they're not these seven questions are questions that the founder of that group made up and if you answer the seven questions to the best of your ability I think you've done a pretty good inventory and there are people who argue that you haven't done in a a inventory and they're people who say the same thing about the Hazelden list I really think that you know as I pointed out in the end my talk last night we have found that god doesn't make too hard terms on those who seek him

this whole thing all the steps are about seeking him about moving from a from an ego center to a guide center and we never get there and it may be that if we got there we find there's no there there and

you know so I I really believe if you're trying to do a good inventory

and and using people in Alcoholics Anonymous to do it if you do an inventory that you're not satisfied later you can go back and do it again

I still have to say on that one I'm about to do the fifth step with my sponsor for the first time

what should I keep in mind and how should I repair prepare the book says honesty was the only thing that counted honesty and accuracy nothing else counts with honesty and accuracy and where was I selfish dishonest inconsiderate where was I fearful

where was I self obsessed and and of those are the things that we need to look at and it and if if you're sponsoring somebody who's going to the fifth step for the first time I suggest you do it stand there with me at the end and say

would you leave out

at the time that that happened with me I didn't feel that I had left anything out I really try to be as honest as I could but I've heard many people hundreds of people say when they sponsor said

what did you leave out

they talk about the item that they couldn't put in the fifth step and they feel like they've been caught you know sometimes the sponsors not even paying attention when you leave out you know just do it automatically and cool got it caught me and then they they run out you know so us it's just accuracy and honesty is the only thing we can do it and there again if you find out later that you left something out you can do it again you know it's not the end of the process when you go through this

on the question my dad lives abroad he is an active alcoholic we get active don't we I have I've been sober for one year I call him once a month and tell him I love him he always asked me the same thing are you are you working do you still live with that with your man though I I just told him a month ago

he moved he moved from us when I was six I love him so much and a

I guess we won't live very long he won't live very long because he is drinking and smoking what should I do I have formally apologized to him but I miss him and in money

yeah this also affects my relationship with with men

will he ever show me love or tell me he cares about me

should I keep sending him notes yeah and I put some money in it too you know if if you owe him money you may be concerned that you don't want to send the money because he might drink with it and if he's an alcoholic he will but that's him if he gets sober you can put that in his inventory if you owe somebody money I mean it's possible that you may say debt I owe you money and he'll say don't give me any money I don't want your money than I am maybe you don't have to give them money that's what we should talk about with you sponsor but if you owe money I sent the money and you can clean up your side of the fence and then if he drinks and smokes himself to death you've done your share you've done your job you've done all you can do because you're not gonna get him sober that's tough you know bill Wilson said you can you can lead a horse to water but dish but you can't make him drink could be still prefers beer at

I have not finished the steps

until I have finished every single item on the eight step list have I'm sorry have I not finish this step the steps until I finish every single item on the eight step list

I am

I am not to expect the magic until then well

I don't know if you're if you're clearing up the wreckage of a your past and you're halfway down that a step list that means you're into your nine step

and interestingly enough halfway through the night step is with the book says are the promises come

we call the promises and

that doesn't mean I I I know people who who get the opinion that we should go halfway through the night step and then the promises come through and we have to go any farther I don't believe that and I don't think there was ever intended but about halfway through the night step is where when we were halfway through this process we'll find it

yeah you know that's when would but I'm not going to try to quit the promises because I'll do what I did on seven separate but

yeah you you need to you need to keep doing my thing what we need to keep doing this process you may find that after you've cleaned up your eight step

by doing your night step

now you may have to go into the tensed up and do it make amends to something you didn't even know that you own a man's on here a step or something you may owe amends for something you did sober now so we have a tense debited step is a drug catcher you know we we do our aid the nights ago thank god that's over well guess what

continue to take personal inventory we were wrong promptly admitted it I'm that's Earl's gonna get into that later but but I think that's just in case we accidentally missed something in the four through nine

so yeah the answer is yeah you may find the magic may find the promises but but you still need to keep doing the steps still need to go through that list

what would you say to someone who has a million dollars

if you want to marry me you know

he

new single you know regarding the nine step up so I'm not who has someone who owes a million dollars

okay I retract what I said

I think

my general opinion and and the thing is

this is so general that that I may have a different answer if I talk to you in person but and maybe somebody else would have given a different answer than I have but if you owe a million dollars

you may be able to pay that off I have seen people payoff amounts of money

that were instrumental debt and they started paying a month I've also seen people that paid on things forever never gotten paid off but the fact that they're paying them off

is the is like trying to move from an ego center tour guide center if you're trying to pay him off also I don't know if this is true in Iceland in in the United States there are big companies like Sears and make company in Robinson who have people who all they do is take care of these kind of things you contact Robinsons may it's a big department store United States and and and if you get to the right people the right financial people and say I I stole from you and I owe you some money you will be connected with the person who does this for a living who collects old debts and they're pretty easy to get along with and they met and they make payment plans

and I've seen people become very surprised by that they expect the call don't worry about that you know

under in forty dollars on a we just wrote that off we're insured hundred forty dollars well how would you like to take care of that you know and and maybe they have that here I don't know but but I mean a million when we come in here I think most of us think that the debts that we are just just on doable we'll never get them paid off and yet we do

okay since this came up I and I mentioned before that I owed a hundred sixty eight thousand dollars to the Internal Revenue Service and the California state franchise tax board here's what happened I went to I try to I try to pay them and they said look like now you're young you will wait and so I went to an attorney who who specialized in in working with alcoholics and

and we may wish that we would we try to make what they call an offer in compromise and they wouldn't accept that and so my attorney said who is also member and this is what she did for a living so well you're gonna have to file bankruptcy

and I said I have a moral problem with bankruptcy

and she said I understand that what would you like to do write them a check at four hundred and sixty eight thousand dollars so what happened was I went through the process of filing bankruptcy and and I and I

I really talk about this in a a meeting because some sponsors tell me don't tell people they're going to have a credit card that they'll file bankruptcy against but the truth is I filed bankruptcy against the the tax boards and in the end the debt was resolved and I didn't put any anybody who who actually owed money

getting real money you know credit cards and things like that

I think I followed the directions that I that I that god gave me to follow I may be rationalizing that and I don't know and the fact is I really don't care so next

are you saying that if I sleep with someone only one time and never talk to that person again that I do not have to talk to that person and make some kind of a man

I see the hand of the person who

that's not what I'm saying but I'm but I mean I I kind of agree with that in in a sense

I I

sleeping with someone one time I don't think is necessarily harm could be

could be but not necessarily but if that's all you did was sleep with them one time and never talk to him again if if I were your sponsor I'd say no well you don't need to him make amends in fact make it making amends might be just an excuse to column I don't know if

so I'm an easy sponsor

how is it possible to really know if you took the six and seven steps to the fullest oh man that's a good question

you know

you know

it just like just like what I just said about the IRS

it may be that guys

guys hearing me saying that I did god's will he's going on Doug

because I think sometimes I think god looking down and say look at this guy I love him he's got his head so far up his **** you know

but I think they're trying to please god actually does please god and and of the six and seven step I don't know you know

and the six step looking at we're we're such rationalizing people that I mean we we look at last and we call it romance you know and you know you call it anger I call it a reason you know you call it Gladney I call it lunch you know this is

I don't know I don't know what the sometimes I don't recognize character defects in there I may be practicing character defects right now that I'll recognize later in goats there's one I should

Univest god to remove so I don't maybe you never get done with them you know so I don't know how you know ask your sponsors the sponsors usually have some kind of a line on this

I have a lot of different perspective than I have with that I'm having some trouble

finishing my men's and what can I do

I'm not so positive that I did harm to some of the some persons well

if you didn't do any harm you don't know any amends and there again is something you need to bounce off you sponsor so here's what I did is that a hardware I need to make amends for that that's pretty simple stuff and it because it's not minus your makes a lot simpler if

if I did some harm in the past

if I did some harm in the past that I have to make amends to

but was not alone when I did what did the harm what should I do just make amends for the stuff you did yeah I don't don't go listen I'm sorry about what Bob and I did two years

we're both sorry sell you know and and I wanna I wanna pay it back for Bob Seger

just you know we just make amends for the harm that we did we can't make amends for anybody else

did dad did you do a nine step on every girl you slept with **** no

sure

no

some of them are

some of my like to think I may of breaking their life to

I didn't even make every amends to every man I slept with and I didn't even mean to do that

do you have a time limit for the fourth step

no no time limit for the four step I don't have a time limit for the four step them I think you should do it soon as you can and if you don't do it to the to your satisfaction responses satisfaction doing it keep doing it my first Bonser said to me we have to stay on this thing but we we're not in a hurry we need to do with the rest of our life stay in the middle of pack

if if you owe money for booze are stolen from restaurant would you pay it

would you pay it back by giving the money to charity no I would give it to the to the restaurant I had cocaine dealers that I had money to in fact some people got sober and owed me money for cocaine that made their men's other people said no don't do that and and it's it's a subjective thing again but I I put a lot of money on my visa card a lot of blues on my visa card I couldn't very well go to these insects

you know eight hundred dollars this was for booze and I'm a sober alcoholic now what is it we just write that off I had to pay that and I think if your money your restaurant the restaurant may be very impressive you go back and say this is what I think I owe you for them for their booze that I still

sometimes you can't do that if you still work for the restaurant you you may lose your job and that's that's something you have to work out between you and god your sponsor sometimes you can sometimes you can't pay the money back without getting site yourself or somebody else in trouble and the book talks about that you know in in but the guy that did made amends to the church stood up and said alcoholic like I excuse me I know I don't come to this church but I I like to make amends I I was I was really horrible that guy over there said he stole from me but he really did not know I ruined his career his wife left him his kids Tatum but it was my fault okay thanks yeah but

so I I it's it's all very subjective you need to talk to sponsor their summons that we can't make anything giving money to charity is a good way to do it and in those cases my ex wife that had that that situation I wish you couldn't give them I I I didn't have anybody who I took money from or something valuable that I couldn't go to accept somebody was dead Anna and that money I just

and to put in the basket you know so it's all subjective world here were all alcoholics the whole thing is about one alcoholic talking to another yeah you know I don't sponsor anybody in this room you're better off talking to sponsor but most of the questions that were asked me tonight

you can say I heard a guy to convince and say this what do you think you know I hope I didn't hurt anybody thanks let me share with you other is anybody have a question that didn't get in the basket

okay thanks