Steps 1, 2 and 3 at the Road to Recovery convention

Karen you have

thank you again and I I just want to say that I am absolutely astonished by how many people are here at at this in the states this would be most people start coming after lunch or date straggling during the afternoon and it's just so great all the dedication that's that's here it makes me feel really good although I I'm I was kind of I was kind of thought the morning slots would be great for me because there wouldn't be that many people here so

all right

questions

all right let me

I'm gonna do this till noon and then we're going to have lunch and and I'll try to do a question I'll try to have every question be somewhat unique

I'm

hi this is great I mean if you don't know exactly what your higher power yes but do you have a willingness to believe in a higher higher higher power how can you make make a decision to turn yourself over to something unless you have a clear perception of that higher power

our conundrum this is exactly the position that I found myself in

it early in my sobriety

and I think that

what what I have experienced is that there is a certain amount of faith

that is that is blind faith that has to be that has to come into to play here and I think that for many of us our first the first way that we experience a higher power is through our sponsor I'm

and then there's a moment that is equally important when we realized that that sponsor isn't the isn't the the higher power or the way that we have to get to the higher power I had that with my sponsor ID I think I've used my higher my sponsors higher power for probably the first year maybe even longer

and then I realized that that I was being invited to have my own and and that was enough you know there were so many times in my early sobriety and the ABC is that

that I talked about earlier kind of address this too there were so many times in my early sobriety when I had to accept

a

partial

a success with account with the with the concept because what I wanted and it's and it sounds like this question is is is sounds like it's from some of the from someone who has who who worked I could identify with really a lot what I wanted was to get it right

you know I thought if I got it right and I could go on

so you do a perfect step one a perfect step three just nail step two and then you'd nail step three and then you do a four step where you know it's talked about in meetings for years as the perfect example of the fourth step

now Karen's fourth step was a great fourth step

and you know the fifth step your sponsor you know has a spiritual experience while you're you know if

you know I am the truth is that's not usually how it happens it's it's that first step one we have to accept in one of the I mean I think it's part of becoming sober and kind of beginning to understand how life works we have to accept that you know there is a there there is we only are going to be able to know what we know you know we're only there to do what we're there to do at the moment didn't know what we need to know at the moment and that when it's enough you know with that it'll be enough that's what I know right now is enough for right now you know and I don't know hopefully that helps

all right

what is the best way for a sponsor to find out if a sponsor he is truly ready and serious about continuing into the fourth step

I'm there's two really tried and true methods I think this is that this one's easy this is kinda this is kind of hard to hard cold fact I'm asking to do the third step with you if they're willing to get down on their knees with you and say the third step prayer they're probably ready cell because that's awfully embarrassing you know

if somebody fairly new can do that they can do just about anything leave me on the other the other thing to do is he has some talent to do the fourth step and see if they do it you know

yeah

I'm when you go back to step one what are you powerless over if you haven't taken a drink or drug for some time

boy that's a great question you know hi I am I come from a big a a community Minneapolis is is a real

active Minneapolis St Paul the Twin Cities are really active a very lots of meetings lots of big book lots of people lots and I mean it's it's a great place to be sober but you know they they it's also been it's been around for a while so it's not if they don't what I see here is so much passion and it's in it's so cool I wish I could take a little piece of this and bring it back to the video posting pollen say you know look you can still be this excited about all of this but what I hear people talk about in my meetings and I kind of agree with this and kind of don't yes taking the concept of powerlessness and and it you know beginning to apply it to the ninety nine point nine percent of life that I'm really powerless over you know the my son my diet I can try to be a good parent but you know he's I'm I'm not in his head I can't

and it becomes increasingly clear to me the older he gets that I have my job is pretty much done you know if I haven't accomplished it by now it's too late you know and I are and then powerless over my boss in my job and my coworkers and and all of you and and virtually everyone so there's that

and and I kind of agree with that but I I always have to remember that that sort of powerlessness he is just a part of a pale shadow over the powerlessness that I still have over alcohol I mean that is still a like I said as real of a fact for me today as it is as it was fifteen years ago and

I used to think I used to I used to get a little

eight it

when people would talk about being just one drink away from a drunk and they would you know having lots and lots of time and I knew that they were not experiencing difficulty staying sober and I think you know that's

kinda means surely we've advanced beyond that point but the truth is we you know I mean what I what I believe now for myself as I haven't and I and I won't and I never will now that you know that powerlessness might come in the form of making a decision that that of death is preferable to growth which is that which is something I was at one time kind of poised on the brink of you know it's alcohol it's the same kind of powerlessness so I mean I wouldn't I would I would never die I would never discount ones my own powerlessness over alcoholism drugs but there are an awful lot of areas of my life that I can apply that principle to sell

I hope this is the same

that's kind of the same one to

I

I had I had been interrupted too many times on my way to the bottom I think he's quoted something I said when do we know when to let went to

when do we know when

I went to help alcoholics and when to let them finish to get to the bottom great question I and I don't know I mean the only answer that I can give to this year's there is absolutely no no doubt in my mind that I have made many mistakes in this area and I'll make many more you know that I have I have cheese people

out of crack houses I have chased people down the street I have dragged people into detox you know I've done all of those things and I've let people go who I may have been able to help you know I've done I've made mistakes on both sides what I can say and and all I can say that's the kind of the running the common thread through all of that is that I've always tried to be willing but willingness is better if I'm staying spiritually fit myself then I can be willing and and maybe informed by my higher power you know and willing and being willing and and kind of having the clarity of thinking to know when it's the moment to step in or when it's your moment to step in is pretty is pretty cool and I've had that experience you know so when I try to do now is I'm you know I'm I'm available

am I try to stay available I try to answer the phone I try to to let people know that I'm in a you know I I I am try I try to be connected and then I also try to stay connected to my own my mom the my own dot and and Doug daily

rituals that keep me close to the prayer the meditation the twelve step work all of that and it is my sincere experience that if I do that I have a I I am clear you know in some way I and I also have more faith but I'm going to know when to stop it

because we make a lot of mistakes in this area and hide I want somebody to have their experience I never want to deny anybody their experience it's all that they've got you know so but I also want to be there when they're

when it when it's when it's my turn to do something

I hope I'm answering some of these emissions of events

hi if you have recovered from alcoholism through the steps but by accident take a drink do you believe the physical allergy would occur

we'll let that one yeah I'm yes I do I absolutely believe that with all my heart and I do think I have known several people who have accidentally taken drinks and they're fine you know they didn't start from being at the mouth bad choice of words are you know just you know tear into the nearest bar and you know go on a three week Bender or anything like that they I mean they they sincerely accidentally took a drink and they took the right actions they immediately talk to people about it there immediately re engaged and in you know in there a a life and and I don't think that that's I mean I think that that's that's the best we can do under those circumstances but I I but when they say Rick when I as I understand it I have recovered from this from a hopeless state of mind and body but the reason I've recovered is because I have a new mind I don't have a new body I never will you know it's him it's impossible for me to to do that and I frankly don't believe even if there were a pill that it would really have the desired effect you know if there was some kind of magic cure for it that that would

that that would make the difference that I would need to to change me into a non alcoholic so I have recovered from a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body the reason I recovered is because I've got a new mind if I took a drink and the phenomena of craving kicked in I would still have to have the same experience that I had fifteen years ago I'd like to think that in that event my friends in Alcoholics Anonymous would would get me through that period and to make sure that I didn't

that that I could that I could overcome it you know with their help so

hi this is interesting

what do you do when you go back to the first step what do you mean by going back

how do you know it's necessary for how long do you do well there

who

that's deep I'm

well going back that's that's interesting because that's probably not the right choice of words I mean the twelve step tells us that you know we practice these principles in all our affairs I don't think they just mean the principles in four three ten

or even into two through ten you know I think they man all of them so it isn't really back you know it's just forward if the twelve steps are a gateway then I'm always kind of moving forward so but you know it it it it if you look at it like a circle then I guess it would be back so that that you're very right about that whoever whoever notice that that's probably not the right choice of words what I didn't mean it and what what has been necessary for me is to occasionally readdress the steps a member rural and I were just talking about this on the break there was a there was one point in my sobriety were my sponsor made me buy a new book

because I was reading the book that you know all the time as I always have tried to but I was reading and as a sponsor and has a long time member and I was reading through my own experience and through all the notes through all the highlighting through all the margin notes through everything that I had experienced and I was reading it as an old friends you know and and probably more importantly as somebody who is using that experience to carry the message to other people which will you know who is always my job but I wasn't reading it as a member necessarily and I stand as crazy as it sounds and many other things my sponsor tells me sound pretty darn crazy which is how I always know they're right by the way

I did I went got a new book and started reading it as as if I had never seen it before and that's probably what I mean by going back how do I know when it's necessary usually somebody else tells me

I would never you know

I would I would probably never come to that conclusion on my own and usually they've been telling me for quite some

you know and all the sudden it it starts to go into that

based in the back I had where I do all my real thinking and and that's how I know and and how long do I stay there I guess only as long as as it takes I am not I'm also not one to to in courage anyone to spend a ton of time on anyone during a formal process of going through the steps to spend a lot of time on any one step

you know I know people who have taken huge chunks of their lives out to write a fourth step you know where you know you're it becomes a of a project of incredible proportions and I would never recommend to anyone I work with to do that you know same with eight nine

you know it's if you look at the experience of the early members they would bang through the stuff in a couple of weeks you know as quick as they could and I you know I do think there's some ongoing aspects of some of the steps but I should be I should be always looking for the next action and there is there are so many clues in the book that that is supposed to be a fairly fast track you know it's still stay immediately launched into a course of vigorous action you know now you know seven step a paragraph boom urinate you know not she I'm gonna sit around and think about step five for a few months and kind of bask in the glow of the you know the warmth of the fellowship for awhile and then two eight nine you know it's

so I think

again probably I don't know how long to do well there because somebody tells me but it's never that long

I think you have what is it noon okay I'll do one more let me see if I've got something that hasn't been put to

okay I will try

and if anybody wants to ask me these one to one that are left please feel free

or I'll give up my email you can ask me anonymously whatever

what I like this one just because it's it's kind of funny and I we might as well and then a kind of a light note what is an alcoholic mean when he says it's god's will that he drink again

hi

hi I

yeah I'm I think you know in all seriousness this is I mean this is one of the this just goes to show you how cunning baffling and powerful alcoholism is it's one of those yeah I have heard this before you know I'm not in so many words but pretty much basically and it's yeah it's we had one of its one of the things that shows me how deep the denial runs an alcoholism how profoundly it impacts us how cunning it is how powerful it is and how much you can over ride you know all of the good thinking you know that we have so I mean I think that's what it means it just means why he's come up with kind of the ultimate

the ultimate answer to the question of of not being ready you know so I'd say if if someone said to me it and that it was god's well I would probably say

let me know how it works out you know

and that's about it good luck good luck with that and

I don't know I mean I I wish that we could I wish we could

make people be ready when they should be ready I wish somebody could made me ready when I should have been ready but

I was ready when I was ready and and as it turns out I think that was one of the reasons that we have so many different experiences with this and there are so many variations to the alcoholic story is because there are so many people that need to hear this and there then they often need to have

I have experience that is similar to their own presented to them so it's important that we all have such different experience you know so I guess the

that's the that's it and like I said anybody who wants to talk to me about any of this stuff anytime this weekend or in the future please feel free I'll give you my email or phone number or whatever thanks