Steps 6, 7, 8 & 9 at the Carry This Message group's first annual Fall Retreat in West Orange, NJ

my name's Dave got them alcoholic and let's kick it off again the the serenity prayer

god

grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change

the courage to change the things that I can and the wisdom to know the difference

well now we are

we're going to do six seven eight nine

that's the direction that I got from my sponsor after after I did a bit that was the only time that he he put a definite

time frame other than now on the staff and anytime I got any break at all was was one step six

and I was at this retreat and he suggested after we've got talent that this stuff and I go back to my room

and reflect over the first five steps can be sure that there wasn't anything that I was holding back their book talks about and talk about not skimping you know talk about let's not make more without saying let's be sure that that that the work that we've done is solid so far because if it's not and I I certainly have seen people hold on to things and that that that who refused to disclose some of the most difficult things about their life and I'm going to get drunk thing that happened many times and and and I did I went back to my room and and I that quietly for an hour and I and I really there was nothing that I was holding back I really I really felt like I had been an honest and thorough and that could possibly be

and and then the big book always thought sixty seven or gravy you know because you take this hour and and six is nothing more then then having it one thing I do want to respect or tolerate to have god capital G. remove all the all these defective character and

I remember that with respect to six certainly you know that day I took the hour and I didn't want to be the person I I I had seen and that for him to step I did not want to be that person and I mean that's really part of what drove me and out walking on it just just being horrified at who I've become and and I and I got on my knees and I said to seven that prayer and I ask god to change me you know I really did I I asking to take away the difficulty and really

I thought that was it you know so well done six to seven and now I'm one eight wow that was easy you know and when I found out is that six and seven kind of continue to crop up in my life

and especially

complex eco story and I'll tell it like it's mine and Hey probably stole it from somebody anyway so you have

and he developed about I'll tell it boring it does that that now with the sponsor and and you know we're talking about working on a character defect

and it because it sounds very industrious and alcohol finance I'm working well my character defects you know it sounds very industrious

Hey doc about sitting down with the sponsor and and tell him that he was you know working on character defect and his father asked him to read the six step toward

and you know were entirely ready to have got to meet he said you know slower

no warrants Charlie ready to have guys he says slower now

while I don't know why why really does exist by the way

and I don't know whether it's sort of like a father thing you know how like up like my my grandfather my mother tells me that my grandfather was much harder on her and then he ever was on the grandchildren that somehow they sort of mellowed you know with age and I wonder that about while it won't even seem to be anywhere near as hard as Tom you know he needed him to be this is a nice gentle guided me you know what

very bad I couldn't believe you sided like retirement live like we've got your

home all

all right off the

Hey I know you get after me through

and

is that why it's a little hard to hear that that include you know the story that you know

well I ask him to repeat himself again he said were entirely ready to have gods and monsters who

this guy says well what do you do I'm working on your character defects that this is god's job to change

much much as I am hello there my alcoholism I am I am truly for the most part powerless over my character defects and that's not an excuse

I don't mean to say that that I go out and and and behave poorly and then justify it by saying I'm sick that's why do the thing because I don't believe that but I do believe what I read one time in an abnormal psychology book in a college course I took while I was still drinking

and then S. internet abnormal psychology book it basically the gist of of of what I'd read in chapter was that we were unable to change your personality we're unable at once it's pretty much established to change who and what we are

and now it is very very difficult to do that S. or what the big book alludes to in the spiritual pending

is it you know what what years of self discipline what years of work cannot you know could not accomplish can often be accomplished and a few short months with god's help

that I myself and by myself I am working capable of changing the

not just my alcoholism but the reflection of my alcoholism is really my character defects

you know especially once I stopped drinking right I mean that's you know no longer drinking so the reflection of my alcoholism is my character defects non alcoholic

and that's really where I believe you know god has to god has to intervene in my sobriety because otherwise after period of time I will go back to drinking because I cannot stand my defects of character

so it's six to seven when it first appeared to be a very simple thing and moving very quickly from one to eight overtime we continue to take that inventory and and what do you say that you go through four through nine on a regular basis or you do a true ten step is to me it's immaterial the same thing you're taking fifteen to take inventory there been issues in my life thing character defects right around ten years of sobriety there were some character defect we're just eating my lunch

you know I had resentments come back I had either come back ahead green come back ahead let's come back in a way that was I knew was threatening my life

and I sat down and and end to end wrote another inventory whatever with my sponsor because you know although a lot of the stuff has been removed although a lot of record keeping cleared

that I could see that there were still areas which were glaring and if something wasn't done about them that they would go on to wreck my life

and and I don't want to I don't want to pay the price and

I don't like living with that wreckage and there is certainly in six and seven the other thing too is that I had you know in hindsight you know what three months of sobriety I had a little awareness of what was really wrong with me

and I really do believe in the analogy of the onion and you peel away the layers and I really do believe in Alcoholics Anonymous in some way the road does get narrower as time goes on because the the standard that I that I may help to and I'm not talking about which you will be due to standard that I hold me to it's based on it based on the joy of living and what happens is over time I can I don't suffer well in overtime I have become very accustomed to feeling good

and when I stray slightly from that path the cost is my piece of my serenity and I don't suffer well

so in some ways the road has become now or not because not because of some standard put on me by outside but because of an internal standard and because of god give me such a good life

and so they're trying to stick to that still requires requires constant effort it really it really more an eleven step in prayer meditation and asking god to continue to take that important eight nine is is really the the the core of the events that I went to my sponsor with the list eight and and I I I really recommend it certainly don't start a man until start making demands until you go over the list with your sponsor

it's a very valuable filter

who needs to have the immense made in house you know sometimes it's hard to at you know hard for us I had a spotty recently who made an amended someone who actually did more damage than and then they would have had they left him alone in order to get peace of mind for themselves

and even though I I had advised him not to make that and and we talk about how to make it Peter going on its own and did it and and actually went up by hurting the person more because he wanted to be free of something and and the rule is that I really do believe that the rule is that we be hard on ourselves needing another

you know that we really have to have a sponsor and I think we have to have an objective opinion one one who's on that list while they're on the list and we're going to stay home with them and I really do believe in face to face the men I don't harm people by mail it harm you by phone

you know I really do believe in fake debate the men than any any exception I've heard that that is and my wife uses the example if she'd had a an ex boyfriend who was very violent and and it didn't want to make the men face to face or

eighty and I think that's legitimate and and those kind of cases but that the education I really heard of I don't have any of my story I believe you harm the pay to Beijing make amends on page eight

and I'll shut I share with you the list I had a list of up you know what the pricing the mi by the time I got to the the a step in the list of not all that long

you know I really live would like to tell you that the list was

no with with with super long

but it really wasn't and

the people that are on the list for the most part was the people that work but I mean

yeah I really do believe and and you know when I talk in the book about it coming out of the cyclone cellar and looking around dating any grand the wind up on it now and that's thorough every answer to where I was you know it at six and seven wow man any grand the winds are blowing and we start looking at eight

and the wreckage around

the wreckage was evident not only in my life but in in the in the eyes of my family who you know for a long long time wasn't sure whether or not I would say

wasn't sure whether or not when I would walk in the door with IBM

and wasn't sure for a long time whether or not they could trust me with money or believe a word said

you know it took some time it takes time to do the damage and it takes time for Twitter to try to set it right and and in some cases

a guy that I admired and respected and got a Franklin who said that a while now and I know it's late June well you know

Frank tell the story where you know he was there for thirty five years and his daughter still would not seem more committed to see the grandchildren he never did get that which he did the wreckage that he had done with alcoholism you know had driven her away to the point that she would not allow him back in her life

even with thirty forty years right we never got to see a change

sometimes we don't get back what we lost no that's not really what this is about it I see what it's really about it learning how to live with what we've got left and and and and a whole new life how often you might not get back what was lost

but I do believe in in my life said asking god put things in there that I never would have seen coming

it's still my life and make it richer

I want to thank my sponsor did I had it listed people within my family a few ex girlfriend he probably crossed off

I really wanted to make amends of them bad you know

I was single at the time and you know I was I was hoping they were to be announced

and then he took off some of the left one or two one there that really were the gentleman and they took as little ten and that and and and some people have an issue with what I'm gonna say but I don't really care a

I had just list one to ten or fifteen whatever it was and he took out a penny but one any day

put me at atlas

and there's some people say well no you don't need to make amends yourself what kind of selfish crap in that

hello I'm still hard going today you're the person I have the hardest time for giving the person a holder that was the longest again and the person that I often just like most

me

me I hold myself to a standard much higher than it would be to to form of ego by the way if you're wondering I didn't know that how much I want to tell me that

did you know often I judge myself by a different standard because I believe that I'm different

that's a form of ego but still today I'm in my experience has been that I think alcohol have a really hard time forgiving ourselves and and getting half of the internal damage we do and that really do anyway to do that and and and then to myself is continue to walk down this path

that is in any way that I would talk about talk a little bit about that the internal the self esteem and not in the character building and you know and how do you recover that is from the outside and that's what I really believe and by by by doing the things that I find here I do make myself

and I'm changing now and and over time even though I'm very hard on myself I can't deny that you all got it changed me that's not me you know you all got it done and I you know I can't and I watched it happen to you day in and day out and you know I want to change so and I'm in the right place I'm doing the right thing

and yeah I think it's time I got out of format here I'm like six seven eight so

well I'm gonna give it to you unless you do whatever you want to do it now

and I will come back tonight

send resume

when you're in recovery recovery shows reasonable to

if you're righteous nothing but your own lady seems reasonable to you

so I won't use

yes actually work Roach street

yeah that's option right you should

so

we get to step six with the sand truck driver he is a center for every day because what you're saying

his previous

and is very combines and truck driver but he's consistent

very consistent

now I told you I was working on myself like Datia

I want to be industrious and one home press you how serious I was taking this program

on one occasion to worship in the bedroom the other factor can you answer some model

I'm sort of stuff

he says to me not only to say to me that the

I can't fix myself

lose you charge us is god and we got your fingers in there for

mmhm

you just don't you know a sick mind can I fix a sick man

you feel the gun because she got a healthy mind he will sixty six five

all

now being fresh off a fifty four staff I had some real good reasons

do you have D. G. secs removed

because she was fresh in my mind that the barriers should be joyful living leisure defects that my sponsor just pointed out to me

it was fresh in my mind what a park Shearer played in by knocking

it with the offices here was fresh trash

and what a part ego had played your mind I

one of the hard shell shattered is

play your mind I

and the answer was god centeredness and I couldn't get some self centeredness to god centered the answer

by my own line

I can always get too self centered and open to god's honest answer from the problem Thompson conditions through the rest of the ships the guidance of the sponsor ad working with a search

absolutely required

not she gestures

requires

illusion the Mayflower hotel

he is in deep doo doo his business trip went down the drains he is short on box he's a little loads and burn the witch the calls to **** to her

if you could please the lower orders going forward

well she says hello but you stayed sober and triggered a slide

and bill called

Thompson looking for someone to work with

Dr Pontianak call bill

bill had to find someone to work with the shorts in the six

the problem is Tom answers outside of town

Tom was a short problem buying in the sick mind even knowing

the solution still is powerless back to Paris again the

powerless to bring about what he knows

three PL city guides which says which tolerates you have god remove these defects of character

not

Tom

he has worked to get sober right works on his shot to get server he got drunk

Tom watering shelf each marriage she had divorced

the problem work twenty job or career part

top work from understating city wound up but not as much

I had the lock on my side of the door

it was not architectural oversight I was not sure

every day even touch your job within the skip all that crap you're not sure

that's deflation to be going to that's what I'm not sure I do it

a very relaxing things you know I was not sure I know what I no longer have to pretend to know anything I sit next to a window where someone I don't know I'm not an engineer

relaxing

so we get to seven now

we're going to

we're going to

how many wish he

it is realistic to you a truly windshield in a way I believe some of the exact actual dating back with people I love

with people I know nothing

hello three years is garbage which is weird because they were purchased for toward the church for god sakes booking all of betterment you can stand

you may become a better person if you experience steps in your life if you're an alcoholic

but that will be a by product

of the spiritual awakening it is not the end itself the big focus explicit on that

we're trying to put our lives in order to process us

but that is not and shall

our primary purpose is to set ourselves to be a maximum service to god and the people around us that's what the spiritual ways he's all about to be a maximum servers it's not to become a better person

why did we need to preserve section through Dale Carnegie readings it kind of says you're very popular better

you be one of the people in the back of the church here for a while here she had been a real soon grew groups

tension very holding his shin director freed somewhere somewhere out there somebody had fallen

it is our job which is kind of a simple

I don't want to have

I don't want to

I don't know what to do about it

that she would be process but they call it the seven step port which we find appropriately one seven point six that is please seven six

when ready ninety eight ready don't say this say what you want I just will become a better person I want to do the next right thing he's like yeah Hey that sounds good as good sociology

next right thanks do you know of an alcoholic it really has a good agenda

I don't know what if you have a good agenda you know what's next what if you're an alcoholic you really don't know what's next

if you trash you realize that god knows what's next

which you really don't know what's next and a lot of times we can separate the truth from the public

or there right from wrong show if you want to do the next right thing consider the limitations of having a gender and not knowing what's right outside that you're okay

that stuff creeps in here from sociology one oh one my job is to take it out

yes she has been in many groups have G. S. arguing

when you get into group wrap my group's got a DSP that's our group right now as my job to do that I'm the designated son of a **** my job is to take his stuff after the group every group needs one you know you need a person don't give a darn about

public opinion realizing that we don't get sober by committee

we don't get recovery from the endorsement of waters

we get to create cover your body

acceptance a loving guy in the exact manner which is presented to us

no conditions no terms with just a portion

my creator that's where I come from I guess a few degrees

I'm now willing

Amanda the insurance business I would like

that you should have all agree

sure that's a rotary

we're gonna have off of

good advantage which is separate can be good and be able to give it all to him because we can't separate it

we don't know we like to know what we

I pray that you now removed from me every single defect of character so I think of a better portion no it don't show you that

every defect of character which stands in the way of my usefulness to you

and my some of which

that's the reason we have been removed

sure we need to work on it

can become willing

to become makes it

he carried this message message of recovery center spiritual awakening

to god interstellar which when they see some others I think that's an inclusion thank you all for your family and so forth

during your life

we carry the message which virtual which that's what we have to become fit to do

why when I am busy

working with a new person I am outside of the troubled for teachers so

eight

I have been assigned to me

which you

the offering

that Kurdish

our records show morning

outside

John mass rather troublesome

a miniature sent

the gotcha and what takes me here by taking no

what takes me there

a willingness to help others want to respond to students will work well for

she you can show for like six months gone

one of your group whose group of strange

really helps cop on the beat

fortune appears for users in numeric coming soon the door

he's got six station run you got six months they will

okay did you get over there tell him what you did you get six months it'll be exactly what you did or for god's sake don't tell me what you think

shop the door telling when I did

I was tempted to telling my wearable flashbacks of intellectual seizure from above the spasms an allergist but if we were to leave it in the oven for the record open

not telling but it did

her research

to

I see this is what happened when I did this

god we came closer to me I became less afraid of

in the idea that I could understand she started to diminish

as we drew near to him more was revealed

god shine H.

our inotes which revealed

Tom ridge importance in Christians working managed

on the west of spiritual acts more not as more like putting preparation H. on my character defects it don't care if it shrinks it down towards managed this

something rather mundane

but you all know what I mean sure

when we come over to eight thank

we're going to write this down people we harm elect a former technician mobile more informed very

I have had a lot of

look at it he should

thank you are you Charlie Manson show ever since as long

you want the power to harm more than

you just over estimate your ability to impact the lives of other people

did she go I thought was a scrupulous conscience what does that sound good

his search for position there that we say he got ego

you think you do the impact as well as what people

you assume that you have more for you will the names you know

free will she eagerly distributed

I can send you without your permission

how would I figure I can sing

nineteen percent while he was at his permission

welcome

I wonder where this is going to take me well I said I don't care where it takes you just is going to get his direction

members and we can impact the lives of people like we see

and then we change

we only want the coach user testing had

but it wasn't enough

they told you stop freaking you would be okay

the success they had it was in

subscribe to more

you can just send people like children who depended upon you yes you can they don't have a fully developed

how will you can discount if a wife or husband who is dependent upon you for basically nothing

yes you can send them back or if you put your consent

she owed them millions

you make a

which is in men's me to shoot me hello I'm sorry I want to let X. Y. customary for twenty five since issue I know you're sorry

okay no bullets in there

I have heard

Pedigo Tochter junction I step with a little bit about and one of the great things about the other steps to prepare you for this deposition

that we learn has a listen the first time in our lives isn't that amazing

now we're going to listen to someone else without speaking of response while they're talking

what a gift

their suggestions recondition

accidentally I discovered by kun readings on a regular basis and doing something that work with people I have become a trained listener I did not set out to become a training mission

and I tell you how I know sometimes I take in my career

can cheat required continuing education a lot of us have to do that I could sit in a career actually yes

and listen for an hour without jumping up and down the heavy wires and tapes and all that other outside trappings that people bring in the whistles and bells and teach

I can listen for an hour and go home in about fifteen minutes John all outlined

the whole hour I couldn't do that for

and the difference between then and now this Alcoholics Anonymous

it's a by product

I didn't set out to take a memory course

I set out to get show burden you told me I couldn't say sure Willis I got recovered

that's what happened

awful cold winter nights to

I'll be sure to instances where if you want this I had to make amends to the ex wife

as she is an eight quality warm

she was informed

loving considerate woman she had the misfortune to be married to a fellow like me

you must be very open minded because what you're trying to reach you said yes

today it was up and running

and after twenty five years we became divorced

and I went and my sponsors say you have to make direct amends to her is to first of all he said to me is she in the continental United States

three hundred not sure yet I saw one

you've got to make direct to Manchester he captures California cotton on that subject

she was so I had to go out with her and I listen to your

the stuff that I thought was terrible

she

did he was a big deal

to to senior really struck me

I had a lot of jokes about dish drunkenness and stuff it bore one should be under a lot of us her huge indirect

benefit of or in

victim of that man

I really didn't know what to do about it

send my sponsor him issued directions for some of the engine maker but I had to go back and talk with her about five times

he should take her to a public place you are married to or for twenty five years you're gonna know what restaurants you like which

she said as for the two

she sought pictures pretty much convinced that I wouldn't drink again and I was

IT

she did not alcoholic about making amends to had more confidence in my continued surprise inactive

I didn't expect

you know what she was still concerned about

the

I wouldn't be faithful to her

cash which she was concerned

she expressed I instructors for service she didn't

show organizations with their

I believe she had some idea of reconciliation I didn't know

I did have the idea plus or minus you adjusted shipping did not wrestle

and

well I thought it best I asked my sponsorship and he's just a great brand authority that should be easy continue with steps to keep my focus on recovery and where everything took me to let it take me and when it was necessary for a more definite direction

to be known to me in god's time and god's way it would be known to be such a

show for god is not said I should get married

so a lot of women have been protected

committee further damage

with some of these may I'm sure so some other guys out here taking up the slack

well he will be one of

it's that simple and the other was like state

my father died when I was really young and I had to walk

go to work at all and my youngest brother was like eighteen years younger than me and we're at right at Incheon uncles resigned kids so

others are still some light lunch

I started a bit which reads to abort provision known iced over slept in the middle of the order further their fellow fans the

so that's why I say they actually read the bill

other leaders any idea that'll come down at the end is to be up in the middle somewhere and I haven't fallen and aids

so anyway

he had left Maryland when he was

seventeen here for eighteen very angry

he was supported pretty good he went to a private judge with high school and college

of

opportunity was made available to emerging markets

any in the middle of the Vietnamese war he joined the army

he was very angry

and he never wanted to come back to Maryland yeah

and for

Stephen specifications are best served me two years he did

and then there's thirty seven years

I carried a heavy heart because I knew I took care of each physical once in that stuff

but I thought I knew were to Fisher motional growth reflecting because I was out there preaching making money

money was reported to be worth six everything I thought

check your luggage just penitentiary she doesn't want to come back

I didn't know for sure but that's roughly

show he got her girlfriend down in Daytona beach you called one of my other brothers and said your brother's dying for cancer the youngest one

his messages to fifty to fifty two

so I went down she even Christmas boxes says you got it and she person

make sure to mention few weeks to transition back

so I did a very servicing or some you know really strong show a few years you know wherever I dealt at Aldershot

of delivery server

my ship

Dr Daniel strange girlfriend picks you up takes members he was glancing

a more defensive he's criticizing

so start talking talking

he says to me Tom I do which you don't want

should we be back you know what I'm doing is for god's sake up it's over now collection was for eight years it's a nice step out and do it too

so she has that's what the list

this was what happened his reserve wrong

Shana here who are neglected to

he's not a member you take me to the colts games when they play in Baltimore

I remember you introduced me to Raymond berry and

I remember you took me up books Robinson was a friend of mine

I did you should approach robbers

what he was a little kid he remembers

let me tell you something about alcoholics and adventure

right now

you are not qualified to judge you know more than I was and I carried that **** for thirty two years

it wasn't so I followed your directions going in I stuff like it is in here

at the direction of the sponsor I found out I was wrong

I was wrong

that is said to myself and many other things you do you're wrong about Tom

similar in nature

Shurmur nature you'll be qualified to judge you

you are a qualified to judge nothing dodgy you're qualified to do is have an opinion about stuff but it's not a matter of right or wrong you just have to do some stuff for your opinions more informed and wonderstruck which Russian foreign

thank god other kids to package that you have is not immune to some don't didn't argue with them about anything we will change

if you're growing hopefully yours will too because that's life it's the

can can you well with your change

so we don't change our cemeteries Herschel rich talk

but then that's a sign that says to to be in mobile

the body has laid down the app which is death

nice definition great freaking saying

thank you she is everything I've lived through

everything

thank god she caught me

property segment

you can use to help others has that you

absolutely nothing has switched

like I rescinded says today

Michael six is a good day

if we but know what to do with it

if we know which to her I don't know what to do with

show in the morning if you don't you need a cost issues out for worked on the mission she

let me know what you want me to do today that way I'm sure it's going to be included in

in may go to court records show what you think

remember time you saw after thirty two years you an internet browser you're wrong

zero

Chechen

like the Phoenix

adders ashes of being wrong for thirty two years rises to a whole new life

pope in Chile and the ability to pace and would you just take a second look at some of your deal which in summer your shames

find out

how much righteousness damage you