Relationships at a 12 step workshop given by Mike W.

Thank you so much, Bruce. My name is Keith Lewis. I'm an alcoholic.

We're still waiting to see how crazy Bruce is.

All the data is not in,

I tell you, I Bruce had asked me if I would do this yesterday and I knew I was making a mistake. I feel something like a guy must have felt who, who preached the sermon a day after Pentecost. You know,

I, I, I've known and loved Mike way for almost 27. Well, it'd be 26 years next month when we met. And, and I've watched this, this development, this incredible development that's, that's taking place. And how many times we sat and laughed and cried and prayed and done all those things together. And and, you know, we're promised that that we'll get to watch a fellowship, you know, unfold about us. And

it might sort of epitomize is that that fellowship for me,

he often embarrasses me by telling stories which have a modicum of truth in them, but not much more than that. And and one of the things I remember about Mike was we never did anything alone once we discovered we didn't have to. And, and I bought a house

in Tacoma Park and there were I believe 7 townhouses were not my 7 townhouses and they all came on sale at the same time. I think everybody figured out at once at the neighborhood had gone to hell. But

I bought the first one and and of course I got all my AA friends to buy houses. So we had, you know, the irregular group of Alcoholics Anonymous living there side by side and it was a zoo. It was a marvelous zoo and but it was great. You know, you always had someone to go on a 12 step call with you. All you do is knock on a door next door, the door beyond that or the door beyond that. And, and we had all these gatherings. We used to call. We had a popcorn ministry where we'd all get together and Mike could make popcorn and we just talk about the principles of the program. We had a

ministry on Sunday. We get locks and bagels and cream cheese and be twenty of us and, you know, we'd all go for a run or something in Tacoma Park and then we come back to Mike's house and we'd all eat bagels and things. So it's just an incredible way. And you know, what was amazing to me about that was you look around that house and there would be, you know, 20 people who anywhere from six months to six to six years before that we're so horribly isolated that there was nobody else in their life.

Mike described it beautifully that people in our lives were were like cut out figures that

that I moved around. They were like pieces of furniture in my life and they were there to gratify me. That's that's what your job was. Your role was there to gratify me. The book describes what I suffer from is selfishness and self centeredness. And it says that that's the root of my problem. And it says something else too. It says in a 12 and 12 that the inability to maintain a relationship was probably the cause of my alcoholism,

an amazing phenomenon. I thought about that a lot. The inability to maintain a relationship was probably the cause of my alcoholism. And that's not quoted exactly, right. I need an exact quote. I always go to Bill. Bill, do you remember off exactly what that said? Is that is that close enough where you come a long way, Bill

First three or four years I sponsored Bill I used to purposely misquote things so he could correct me. You know, to every, everybody's got to have a place and

you know, this whole business of how we relate to others, how we relate to God, how we relate to the world in general. I think it's probably the, the most significant lesson to be learned in Alcoholics Anonymous. And Bill thought so when Bill wrote to 12:00 and 12:00, he'd had a fair amount of experience in Alcoholics Anonymous and he'd watched a lot of people come and go and, and, and I've had a fair amount of experience in alcohol exercise. My sobriety date is May the 13th 1973 and, and, and I've watched a lot of people come and go and,

and, and I I've noticed some things which may or may not be correct. It may not, may not be accurate to

think it matters. What matters is that I believe them real hard. I really think that that's what matters. I don't think we need to be right.

I think we just need to be honest and consistent. And because if it being right counted. I'd been gone a long time ago. But. But what I've discovered is that people who insist on being different never seem to make it in Alcoholics Anonymous. So I was at a prison last week. I was at a couple of prisons last week. I'd love to go to prisons. And,

and I was there and a guy who introduces himself differently than everybody else. She knows a guy. My name is so and so. And my problem is so and so. Well, that's really clever, except that he's not one of us yet. And he's saying, I think my problem is, is that I've never taken a good fourth step. No, no, no. You promise you've never taken a good first step. You know, if you need to stand out in Alcoholics Anonymous, I mean, think about that.

I'd like to be a standout in an organization that everybody gets to as a last choice.

Freddie makes a lot of sense. Doesn't, I mean, if a non alcoholic ever got into Alcoholics Anonymous, they choose to remain anonymous. I mean,

they really would, wouldn't they? But and so this whole business of how we relate to one another, how we relate to the world in general, how how we relate to God is critical. And I think it's something that really, really merits a lot of thought. And you know, everybody always thinks if you're going to talk on relationship, we're going to talk about sex. I don't know about you,

but I mean, I don't want to downplay sex. I think sex is important, like not drinking is important, but but sex has very little to do with relationships. It really does. I mean, the reason that's true is I had a lot more sex when I had no relationships.

Yeah. So if, you know, if relate having a good relationship, we're important to sex. You know, I wouldn't have had any sex before I got to Alcoholics. None because I was unable to relate to another human being. And a reason for that, I think, is it because I was grossly immature. You don't hear it much anymore because it's probably not cool. But the old timers used to say when I came to Alcoholics Anonymous that that your level of maturity stopped when drink, when alcohol worked. The day that alcohol worked for you is a day that your level of maturity stopped.

And that was true. And, you know, I came to Alcoholics and I was just 29 years old. I, my wife had tossed me out and, and,

and I was 29 years of age and, and I was emotionally 15 and easily emotionally 15. I mean, I was demanding. I was like King baby, as Freud would talk about, you know, I lay down and kick my heels on the ground and, and I'd pout, you know, and I'd project my guilt onto you. And, and I hated with vengeance. And, and I plotted, I always plotted revenge. I had these tremendous, tremendous plans of revenge, you know, and it was insane. I remember when I was in the Marine Corps, I, there were a couple of drones or a couple

military police who didn't understand the roles in Jacksonville and,

and they harassed me and it was as though they didn't recognize who I was. And,

and I remember the day I got out of the Marine Corps. Now my alcoholism is only four years old and I get out of the Marine Corps. And the four guys that I met when I joined a Marine Corps, we all met at dispersing. Now we hadn't seen one another for four years. We'd all gone to different branches of the Marine Corps and different duty stations and things. And we all met at Camp Lejeune up in North Carolina and we all had shot laughing and everything. And three of us had made corporal, one had made Lance Corporal. And so I said to him, let's go to the NCO club and have dinner or have lunch in a, in a, in a beer and talk about old time. So we,

we went over and it was great fun. We all shared where we had been and what we'd done and, and all that stuff. And, and they just kept looking at their watch because they had things to do like get home and chase their girlfriend around and stuff like that. And, and I stopped looking at my watch when I took the first drink because time, no matter mattered. I became a great philosopher after the first drink. I mean, I, I really did. And, and I kept saying, why don't we have another? They said, well, I really want to catch a plane. I said, what, what's the hurry? We've been here four years, you know, what's another,

you know? And so they had another one, but had it in a hurry and said goodbye and left and, and I stayed there. I stayed there lamenting the fact that we weren't kinder to one another. And then I started thinking about those MPs out there and, and, and I remember that, that I'd read it that you're actually under the jurisdiction of the Uniform Code of Military Justice for 24 hours after your discharge, when my discharge had been signed at 9:00 that morning. So that meant that for 24 hours. So I went into Jacksonville,

had a few drinks and I went to a friend's house and drank until the middle of the night and went to sleep. And I got up the next day and put on civilian clothes. And I went into a bar where the MPs used to harass me. And I was sitting there and it was 930 and I was drinking my second beer and the MPs came by and I just did what any normal person would do. I gave him the finger and,

and they came and, and told me that that they were taking me in. And I said, you know, you can't talk to me that way. And I called him, you know, all those names and jar head and all this stuff that people would call me. And, and, and so they took me down to the police station and they took me in a police station. And I said, I want to press charges against these military types for harassment and for salt and battery. I'm going on and on, you know, and, and, and I showed them my orders and I'd been a civilian for half an hour when they began to push me around. And

now, you know, the average guy wouldn't have stayed around 24 hours to just to prove a point. And,

you know, and this is how I relate it to the world. When I got up in the morning, I went to war. I mean, that's what life was about. Life was about getting up and going to war. And I had a total inability. I lived in a hostile environment, whether I was in combat or not. And it was about getting up and going to war. And I came to Alcoholics Anonymous with the same mentality, same mentality. It was a guy, Big Mike, who's been dead a long time now, but Big Mike got sober in Hell's Kitchen. And Big Mike talked about when he the day he fell in love with Alcoholics Anonymous was the day he discovered that maybe one day he'd

speaking on Saturday night

in a way that happened was older members would either die or get drunk. And he keep track, you know, and, and when they get drunk or die, he'd just be thrilled because that moved him closer to Saturday night. And,

and, and I can understand it. I can really relate to that because I came to Alcoholics Anonymous at total inability to relate to anybody on any level whatsoever. Somewhere between a second and third drink. I would wax philosophical and, and I would be able to relate on some level. The woman I was married to, there were those rare occasions when we would both have enough in US. I don't think she had a drinking problem, but we'd both get enough booze in us that philosophically we would mesh. It was like magic, but, but that was a rarity. It wasn't something that was

to be anything but a, you know, a coincidence, something, you know, like two ships passing a night. Also, you know, you enough ships passing tonight, two are going to run into one another one of these days. And that's sort of how how our relationship worked. And it came to Alcoholics Anonymous. And and what I was told in no uncertain terms was Keith, you're a nice kid, but you have to grow up. Not good news. You have to grow up. I waited for years for other people to change,

and then I received a message that I had to grow up and, and you know, Mike said. It's so beautifully this weekend

that I was incapable of doing those things. I'll tell you how immature I was. I was 30 years of age. I've been sober almost a year. I've been separated for over a year in my in neuro divorce and my sponsor told me it was time for me to date and he said, he said, have you been thinking about anybody you'd like to date? I said, well, no. I said I don't think about those things. I'm working on my spiritual life and

and I said there is, however, now that you mentioned it, a really good looking nurse up on

OBGYN. I thought that was Freudian and,

and he said, well, he said, look, I want you to. He said, is she single? I said, of course she's single. What kind of a man you think I am? He said, look, I've heard your first step.

He, he said,

he said, I want you to ask her out. And I said, well, I'm not sure I want to do that, you know? Well, of course I wanted to do it, but I couldn't because immature people can't do things like that. So what I did was I stalked her.

You know how you do that. You know, you look at her and you see how she's looking at you and you know, the computer's going.

Then you look at how she looks at other guys and you know, and all this stuff. And then you drop pints like you're probably going out a lot, aren't you? And, and stuff like that. And, and you know, because the idea, of course, is to totally thank you. It's a totally minimize the chance that I'll be rejected because one more rejection, I'll die, you know, I mean, I'm one rejection short of going over the edge. And I had been for quite a while

and and and I ran into her one dime in a hole. Now he told me why did deal with my first sponsors name was Dan

and a deal was if I did what he said he wouldn't break my knee.

He's a big guy. He could have broken my knee and from time to time he'd say what are you grateful for? I'm not grateful for anything he said. We have two perfectly good knees. And

and so he said, I want you to ask her out the next time. And I said, OK, so like four times later, right, I ran into her in a hole. And I'm 30 years of age. I mean, I'm considered to be a reasonably bright guy. I mean, I'm a member of the World Congress at genetics. I mean, you're talking about a High Roller here, you know? And, and I said to her, hi, which I thought was really clever. And

fortunately I didn't ask her a sign that was big then, but

what I said to her, how'd you like to go out Saturday night? And I was 15 years of age. And I said, oh, you probably wouldn't. And even if probably don't, even if you did, you wouldn't want to go out with me anyway. And I turned around and walked away and,

and I stopped. Look at Jeff. He can't understand this. He doesn't drink, right?

I stopped, right? I stopped and and I turn around. I said I like to start over. And her mouth was still hanging open. You know,

and, and I asked her, I just started ask her out. She said yes, you know,

because she didn't know what I'd do. And

so we went out, we went to her house, never forget it. She invited me to her house for dinner and we had all these raw vegetables. I should have known, you know, this raw vegetables, you know, And then I asked her, we're going to go to the theater and I sit on my sponsor. So I'm going to ask you to the theater. He said it's a very nice thing. He said that's a nice safe place to to take someone. And, and so it was at the Kennedy Center and, and, and

so we went to one of my favorite places, a place called Chadwicks. And we had dinner and I had coffee and she had a glass of wine. And then she had another glass of wine and, and she had another glass of wine and she had another glass of wine And about 8 glasses of wine later, I said we might want to go so we don't miss Curtain. And she screamed, mind your own business, leave me alone. And

I went and called my sponsor and

and he said he said look, he said pay the bill. He said leave her money for cab fare and come and pick me up. And I said we going to go for coffee. He said no, I've wanted to see that place since I came to town.

So like Mike, like Mike, my picker was really screwed up. And but but that was the beginning. And, and what I discovered was if I was going to function interpersonally, I had to be willing to make a lot of mistakes into appear foolish and, and do all the rest of it.

But the mistake I made was I tried to begin this whole phenomenon of relating with, with females, but members of the opposite sex was a huge, huge mistake. I had to begin this phenomenon of relating with God and with my sponsor and then later with my personal close friends and on and on and on. You know, John Powell, Mike mentioned John Powell. I met John Powell through Father Bob in 1980

and I asked him. I was sober about seven years in. And, you know, seven years is a time when I just, it's easy to get fed up

with a spiritual way. You know, you're never sure they're going to do what you want them to do, no matter how good you act. And, and, and I was just fed up. And I said to father, how I said, what's all this crap about this spiritual crap? What's all this about? And he said, well, he said, he said it's a process. He said, he said, and it's, you know, he's not a member of Alcoholics Anonymous, but he loves Alcoholics Anonymous. And he said, he said, look, he said three things happened to us. And he said a is a perfect place for that to happen. He said the first thing that we

have to do is discover who we are, who we are, and I'd like to add who we aren't. Had a friend, Bob Brown, who's passed away now. But Bob Brown always used to say, you know, I'm not the man I used to be and I never was, you know, and, and I had created this person who wasn't, I mean, I was a war hero, but I was too humble to talk about it. I I was at times an FBI agent, but I was undercover and

and I created whatever I need to create in order to be

accepted as married to a woman who didn't know minor things about me. Like, I was terrified of heights,

you know, and things like that. I mean, just didn't know anything about me because what I had to present to her was something that I thought she would accept and want. And that certainly wouldn't be me. So the key to this whole deal is to discover who I am. And for me to try to give myself in a relationship of any kind of God to my parents, to my brothers, to my sister, anything would have been a waste of time because I had absolutely no idea what I was bartering, what I was sharing. And then the second thing he said is I have to fully accept who I am,

fully accept who I am with all my warts and everything else, because as a member of Alcoholics Anonymous, there was a member of any organization where the the goal is spiritual growth.

I know that I'm not going to remain who I am. I'm going to be changed. And then the third thing is to forget who I am

and I forget who I am by being available to others. So I have to discover who I am. I have to accept who I am. Then I have to forget who I am. And, and I try to play religious at a couple different junctions in my life. I know that my life was in a toilet and and it seemed to me the religious people lives weren't in the toilet and and I wanted to be religious. So I looked at what they did and I acted religious. And the problem was, was that I couldn't. And the religious or spiritual human being is a person who's forgotten self.

I didn't know who Southwest, so I couldn't forget it. I was always trying to put the cart before the horse. I was always trying to act mature before I was mature. I was trying to act giving before I was giving. If you question whether or not you're mature enough to be giving, ask yourself whether or not it's important for somebody else to find out.

It's important for somebody to find out that you've been giving. Then you're not mature enough to be giving. But it doesn't mean you ought not be doing it. It means that it's a skill that we're in the process of learning.

OK, I, we can, we can look at relationships in a lot of ways, but I think the basis, the basic is this. And that is that if I got the Alcoholics Anonymous as a practicing alcoholic, no matter how sophisticated I may act, I know little or nothing about relating to God, the world or to another human being.

And it's a variety to a large extent is learning how to relate to others. And one of the ways I did that was one day I sat down as part of an inventory process. Mike and I have do this semi annual and annual house cleaning with one another a lot. We have for 25 years. We'll, we'll get out our book and we'll do our little writing and then we get together and we usually have fried chicken and we catch up on things. We used to go for silent retreats, which is a joke.

Way of Silent Retreat works is you get there 11:00 and at 6:00, right after dinner on Friday,

you're silent. You don't say anything now, you just don't say anything. And. And somewhere around Saturday afternoon, if you're at a monastery with Mike way on a silent retreat, somewhere around Saturday afternoon, you'll hear coming from deep in the woods. You know, Mike's held on as long as he can and

he's out no way to screaming. And, but, but we would go on retreats, usually quarterly or something like that. And, and, and we would share that. We would do our spot, our annual and semi annual house cleaning and,

and, and we would call one another to task because he'd say, well, you know, last time you said you were going to do this. Did you follow through on that and vice versa? And it's a wonderful thing because we learned to relate to one another. Honestly, maybe one of the first people in the world I ever did that with. I, I related more honestly more quickly with Mike than I have my sponsors. And the reason is that my sponsors have never understood their roles.

They really have. I mean, I've had a lot of trouble with men and women in my life who just don't understand their job description.

Um, my sponsor thought his job was to help me become a better member of Alcoholics Anonymous. He didn't realize his real job was to affirm me

and make me feel good about myself. And so I would tell him things I thought he wanted to hear. When Sandy was my sponsor, Bruce mentioned Sandy. Sandy was my sponsor. We'd have lunch every week. And one of the tasks he gave me was to share with him an old idea. You know, he said you ought to come up with an old. He said you're sober four years, you ought to come up with an old idea. He said an old idea is something you believe before you no longer believe. And so I would make up old ideas because I didn't want to disappoint him. And,

and one week I forgot

and we were sitting out on Washington Circle eating our lunch. And he said, well, what's your old idea? And I said, Oh my God, I panicked. I forgot to think up an old idea. And I said, I said I just stuck. I mean, I was finally caught. And I said almost sandy this week, I didn't have an old idea. He said there's an old idea. And,

and, but, so I was able to relate to Mike early on. For some reason, there's something about Mike that I just don't give a damn what he thinks.

No,

of course, what Mike was always, I always felt I could, I thought I could go to Mike and tell him I just killed someone and he'd say to me it was probably a good reason.

But you know, relating is a process of maturing. It's a process of going from total self orientation, self centeredness to a process of other orientation and other centrists, that other people are just more important than me And, and how hard that process is. And, and yet that's what recovery demands. I remember I was newly sober. I couldn't be in grocery stores very long,

and I just could. I couldn't be in any place where there was a crowd very long, But particularly groceries. Groceries, grocery stores made me crazy.

So what I do is I'd buy 10 items at a time and go through the quick checkout line. So I go every other day and buy 10 items instead of going once a week and buy 50 items or something. And and so I, I get these items. I get them in my little cart. I'd run up there and I put them on there with a guy behind a thing was I guess he'd had a bad day. And he said to me, Sir, you have 11 items here. You know? Well, it was a joke, but he didn't know who he was dealing with.

You know, I was this far from him and he didn't recognize me and

and I lost it and I began to scream. You're absolutely right. I don't deserve to shop in your store. Look, at least people behind me, they're looking at me. I'm saying I'm amazed you people just don't Take Me Out and lynch me trying to sneak at 11th item through this 10 item line. And so finally the manager came over, right? And a guy in a checkout thing saying it's OK, Sir, it was a joke. It's OK. And I said to the man, the manager said, what's going on here? And I said, you ought to promote this man.

I said, here I am trying to sneak 11 items through A10 item line. And he caught me, you know, and I was near tears. I was crazy, you know, and, and so funny. I said I don't deserve this shop here. And, and the manager saying I'm trembling. He said it's all right, Sir, it's all right. He said, no, no, I don't deserve it. And I stormed out of this store and I was in tears. I was crying. I couldn't find my car in a parking lot. And, and so money, I got to my sponsor's house and he had this way of saying you did what you know.

So he drove me back to the Safeway in Georgetown and,

and he pointed and I went in the door and

the manager came running over and said, Sir, are you all right? And

and I've had a very bad life.

I I almost died. Alcohol is a month before last and

sometimes I get carried away and

I pay for those groceries I didn't get and

I can apologize to you and that other guy who was sharp enough to count my items and

and I learned something about the process of beginning right relationship with the world around me. I mean, I mean, those were people. I mean, that man back there who thought he was just being funny and probably was a little bit bored and wanted to, you know, just, you know, you know, I mean, he had feelings and, you know, he had a job security to think about, you know, and, and, and a man who manages his story, you know, it's got can't be easy to manage the grocery store to people with 60 days of sobriety are coming to him.

And,

you know, and then a people standing in line behind me who just want to buy a few things and go home, you know, and I'm subjecting them to this. The book is right. It's like a tornado going through life, you know, but but the difference between then and two months before was two months before I'd have gone to a bar and I'd have gotten two or three. You would agree with me. And, and now it's different. Now it's called accountability. Now it's it's it's beginning the process of being being present to the results of my behavior and going back

trying to fix those things and things like that and and I continue to shop there. And every time I'd see that guy laugh and point it, you'd say 123 where we laugh and the best time. But

but it's the beginning of this process, you know, and, and you're not here to amuse me in this and that. And, and when I looked, no one ever understood their job description. They just never understood their job description. You know, I had bosses, you know, drill instructors, sergeants, things like that, who never understood their job description. Every, I loved every job I ever had. I've never had a job I haven't loved. I love work and I love jobs and I love doing things, you know, but I left every one of them. I always had a wonderful record and I always left angry.

And the reason I left angry was they didn't do what they were supposed to do. All sure they supervised me and they told me what to do and even told me to go in there and maybe get killed. But but but they didn't understand their real job was to make me feel good about myself. You know, their real job was to do what I perceived my father hadn't done. And that is to affirm me. Affirmations are very important thing to an alcoholic. I Remember Remember when my my wife was seeing a psychologist, which explained part of why I drank. I was married to a crazy woman and,

and I knew what happened.

She, she invited me to come with her because he wanted to talk to me and I knew what she had done. She told him all these stories about my drinking. And so I went in there and and he said to me, he asked me about my drinking and I made-up my mind. I was going to try to tell him the truth. And it's to the best of my ability to what I knew to be the truth. I was deluded. And he asked me how much I drank. I said I drink a lot. I said I probably drink a half a fifth a day, which is about half of what I was drinking at the time. But I never counted it if unless I paid for it,

you know, if somebody gave me booze, I didn't count it. It's like my liver didn't know. And

and and so and I said to him this that terrible, terrible time of truth. I said to him, tell me, Doctor, do you think I'm an alcoholic? He said certainly not. He said, he said that you will be if you keep drinking that much. And I said, well, when doctor, I mean, yeah, I thought it was important. And and he got mad. He saw, I don't know, couple years. So my media plan was to quit in a year and a half because I had enough trouble. I didn't need to be an alcoholic too. And,

and he told me my real problem was I had never been properly affirmed. And he said to my wife, he said, this man has no self-image and part of it's your problem because you've been tearing him down. You've been attacking his manhood. And I remember thinking, I don't know what we're paying this guy, but he's worth every dime. And,

and he told me that what I needed to do was to be affirmed. So he gave me these lists of affirmations, my very own Keith's affirmations, is it? And, and my wife Marilyn was to stand with me in the morning as I affirm myself in front of the mirror because her being there would undo some of the damage she had done. And, and I was so pleased to find out I wasn't an alcoholic. I got very drunk that night. And in the next morning I was firming myself all alone and again, and,

and I never forget. I stood in front of that mirror and I looked into those yellow bloodshot eyes and and I had my affirmations. I was trembling a little and

and I looked in the mirror and I said, Keith, today you're a winner.

Today you're a wonderful husband. Today you're a wonderful husband.

Today you're a loving father. Today you're a good researcher. I got about halfway down the first page and I said today you're like, crap. That's what you

I may have been an alcoholic, but I wasn't stupid. I mean, I knew that none of that stuff was true. And but you know, the psychologist was right. I mean, I did need to be affirmed, but but but not that way. You know, I needed to be affirmed. I needed to be in touch with reality. You know, my affirmation comes from the fact that, as Mike explained beautifully these last few days,

that I have a higher power love me so much. When I ask him how much he said this much.

I have a God that loves me. That's why I'm not junk. It's not because I manipulate you into telling me I'm OK. That's not why I'm OK. I don't believe it. I'll tell you how I knew this to be true. My sponsor had my first sponsor, a tremendous insight into the alcoholic personality. And I remember I said to him, I was going to try this out on him. I said, you know, Dan, I've done a few things I'm ashamed of.

And he said a few.

He said, I said, well, what I mean is I'm not really the man I present myself to be. And he said, you're one of the biggest phonies I ever met. I said, well, no, no, what I'm trying to get at Dan is, is I've done some bad things. He said, you've done more bad things than you ever. He said if you had any idea the bad things you've done, you'd throw yourself under that bus over there, you know, And I said, well, I said I've I've, you know, I have heard a few people. He said a few people. He said you're like a landmine going off

of human beings, he said. She said if you had any idea how many people you heard, he said, you'd end your life right now. I remember walking away thinking, here's a man who knows me,

he knew how I really felt. And so that's why Alcoholics Anonymous, before I begin to relate to others, it strips everything away. It strips everything away. And all I can rely on is a faith in in the love of God and the people around me. And gradually and slowly it begins to build that foundation they talk about in the steps.

Solid foundation because we're going to walk through the archway into a new way life.

Somebody said to me one time, I have a lot of fun. I have a graduate degree in psychology. I don't spread that around, but, but, but I do and I, I love psychologists. I really do.

Psychology is a pseudoscience that exists from the neck up. You know, it's really a it's, it's it. Mike talked about the spirit leading the intellect, which leads the emotions. OK, Psychology let the spirit get way ahead of it. And so psychology is the intellect leading the emotions. How does that make you feel? Like what difference does it make? You know,

I had ran into a couple psychologists at an early a, a meeting. And I thought that that a meetings were where you share your feelings. I mean, I've been in treatment. That's what we did in treatment, treatment. We shared our feelings. And I needed to belong in Alcoholics and others because I didn't belong. I was going to die. And I went into this group right in about 14-18 people, something like that. And and I had a topic and I didn't pay any attention to this topic because it got to me. I had some feelings to share and I shared my feelings and a great hush came over the crowd

and then they went on with the meeting. And

next week I went in and the guy pulled me aside and he said you've been sober all week. I said yes Sir. He said, that's wonderful. He said, now tell me. He said. He said we had a business meeting last week and he said the the vote was 12 to nothing. Nobody gives a damn how you feel,

he said. We're interested in what you do. He said this is a program of action and it really is a program of action. And he said if you don't like the way you feel, wait 5 minutes. It'll be different. And it is. It is different.

So once they understand, once I understood the basic laws, I could begin this process called the steps, which would fix my emotional distress and my insanity and all the rest of it. The emotions I reflect early in my recovery are are simply symptoms of the insanity under which I suffer. OK, the lack of Peace of Mind under which I suffer. And I try. I was a guy running around in a grown up body with the emotions of a teenager

and I was trying to make sense out of life can't happen. I was a guy who desperately needed to be taken by the hand and taught. And of course, the 12 steps did that. Mike talked about different types of relationships this weekend. You know, clearly the primary relationship is my relationship with God

and I was very distrustful of God.

I never related directly to God. I went and got a degree in theology so I could learn about God. So thinking if I knew enough, I wouldn't have to relate to God.

And I tell you the first time I truly related to God was when I did my fifth step, the way the man who heard my fifth step had me do it. He said, take your 5th step or your 4th step after you've completed it and go to a place where you experience the presence of God and tell God what you've done and who you are. And I said he was there when I did it. And I'll tell you the first time I truly related to God, he said, he said, he's not the guy in trouble, you are. So I went to a Chapel and I sat down and I got out my four step and I said, God, this is who I am. And

think for the first time since I was a child when I used to run by the church to talk to God in a Tabernacle, I'd say, going to go play ball now. You can come if you want to. I'm not very good, but I'm getting better. And I talked to God and He was my friend and he would accompany me places. From that day until that day I had not dealt directly with God and I told him exactly who I was. And when I left her, I was no longer afraid of Him. And that was the beginning of that relationship upon which all other relationships are built.

I'm working, I, I like to work with guys. I sponsor a fair number of guys and, and they, they are the light of my life and,

and every guy that I've ever worked with, I believe has got to get it right with dad. We talk a lot about dad and I don't believe that a man ever matures, ever grows up and ever accepts his rightful place in God's universe until he gets it right with dad, Whoever dad is or was, and it's got nothing to do with what my dad did or didn't do, got nothing to do with that. That's a shopping list that belongs to a child.

That's a kid who kicks his heels and makes demands. And I was 35 years old and I was still making those demands on my father who never told me love me.

And we were poor and on and on and on. And I remember saying a guy in a one time, I said, yeah, I said we were poor and and, you know, we never got much of a chance. And he said, don't you have a brother who's president of National Steel said, yeah. He said, where did he live?