Fr. Terry R. speaking in Hawaii April 11th 1999

Hello, my name is Terry and I'm an alcoholic.

I just thank you. I just love that I young lady asked permission to kiss me on the cheek.

It's part of my story, having this collar on a lot

of an alcoholic and I'm sober today and I'm deeply grateful to be sober today, grateful to be asked to come and share here.

This is there's a lot more gratitude in this invitation and some other invitations

and I I have it and thank you.

I'm I'm the only place in the world where eventually I feel comfortable, which is a meeting of alcoholic stones. The the matter where it is,

especially if I show up at some place

where I don't know most of the people,

you always look like you're in on something.

If someone says the first point of the program, it seems like everyone else came in the same car

and

it's only after hearing a few people loosen up and share, and especially if I know a few truly demented Alcoholics, it's reassuring.

So anyway, I grew up in a family where not only was there a long legacy of alcoholism, but it was one in which was was talked about.

That Post article, that Saturday Evening Post article Jack Alexander wrote in 1941,

was delivered to my father by his father.

Our family traditions as granddad made a special trip over, brought the magazine and gave it to his son. His son. Find these people.

That's how my father drank and he I was alive then, but not around to analyze things very much.

And he did find him and he was in the program 1943 and 44. So it's like this is a legacy. You know, the disease was way back, but the

but I grew up with the discussion of the disease concept in the kitchen.

First drink get you drunk if you're an alcoholic, first drink is a drunk. Once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic. Don't even think about trying to learn how to drink again. You know,

first drink gets you drunk and I knew all that by the time I was 6/7.

My father went in and out of the program. He had a a slip and he got back in and my mother says he was working with others cause one man he brought home peed on a couch and

figured that must have been someone who's working with

And

my father had another slip and he died in withdrawal. I was 6 1/2. I had three little sisters, an older brother,

and I knew what my daddy died on. So I I grew up with an intense awareness. My mother had three brothers who were alcoholic, two of whom would visit us with some regularity, and it was easy to get to our house. I grew up in Hawthorne near the LA airport, and in those days, if you got the streetcar 2 blocks off the heart of Skid Row, if you if you had a nickel, I guess they can get on the streetcar.

And when they kicked you off the streetcar into the line, you were three blocks from our house and our house is even downhill.

So it was, it was easy to get there

and we, we would host Matt or Bill. And so I grew up with my Uncle Matt, my Uncle Bill showing up. And the rule of the house was that if you showed up really sick and drunk and dirty, you're welcome, you could,

but you had to stay in the boys room in the garage. And and if you made the run in the way you noticed, then you got a formal explosion trying to get you out the back. I know my little sister Kathleen, one time we're getting Bill out of there and she said, and if that's the disease you got, don't come back because I don't want to catch it.

She caught it.

It's already too late. I think

of of us five siblings, three are sober and Alcoholics Anonymous, and two who couldn't help but they were born that way are not alcoholic.

Yeah.

Anyway, as I I went along, as many you know, you grew up in an alcoholic family, We we have a tendency to go one of two ways. We either kind of are just troublemakers and don't fit in and resist everything and

wild, or we try to create security by creating order. And I was one of those. I tried to create order, get good marks in school, be it myself and keep my head down and that way I don't get it knocked off. And you don't? I think part of the legacy

W sharing this morning is adult, child, al Anon and alcoholic. And I think what only about 2/3 of us qualify for all programs.

I'm

one legacy of growing up in that that kind of a situation is that the, you know,

I got a good education. You know, it actually was not a stable because we stayed in the same house. My mother was.

Didn't have Alan those days right then, which is a good theologian, said a lot of sense.

But I grew up with this thing, which I think is characteristic of some of us

families where I have great tolerance for major disorders. You know, if you're a felon, I'm cool. You know, tell me about it.

But if you speak overtime, two or three minutes,

we got a problem. You know,

I don't I don't mind if you going to take the next five years and make amends for your financial things, but

I hope you went to the bathroom already before you came here.

That disrupts things. I mean, minor disruptions affect me emotionally in this big old way and and other things. Just,

you know, someone truly

destroying the whole organization. Well, that's the brakes. You know, history moves on

and that's crazy. That's part of my insanity, and I'm carrying that line. I need the program on every level.

I went along by my young years, say in the middle of this discussion on alcoholism and reacting to alcoholism and rather and mostly my uncles

and I,

I know one thing I like to say about my Uncle Bill. He, he was my favorite. And when he was sober, it was just so wonderful. It's such a bright sense of humor. Just wonderful to be around when he was drinking. He was just a,

you know, royal painting and they and I got to thinking about alcohol 'cause we talked about it so much. I was already, as a kid,

computing the odds of me being alcoholic, and I thought, you know, could happen. They say it's a disease, not a moral issue. If you catch it, you got it, you got it. That's it. So I was thinking I might be alcoholic

and way before I drank and

but I thought if I ever turn out to be alcoholic ha ha

I mean I'll just quit.

I figured

because I've never heard anybody what my Uncle Bill did to me.

A lot of talk these days about child abuse,

beating up kids, sexually molesting.

He didn't even one of those things to me, but what he did do, I see I'd never do to anybody.

What he did do with. He was drinking. He kind of maneuver me into a corner and bore me to death.

We just same old things over and over and those stories, definition of words

believe on me real heavy

love me trapped, you know, And then when you're talking to a drug, you don't get your turn in the conversation.

You say something back to them and it doesn't register. It's in fact I the longer you talk to a drunk, the Dumber you feel.

You just lose faith in your capacity to form sentences,

but they don't give you anything back that they that they heard what you said, you know, and I thought I'd never, I just couldn't stand the thought of children kneeling and praying to their higher power. Please don't let Uncle Terry come over.

I didn't,

so I had that kind of straight pick a pledge not to drink last 21. That's what Catholic kids did a lot when they were confirmed the Bishop to come to town for confirmation

and it was

they don't do that so much. I don't think they do it anywhere anymore, but it's an Irish sort of thing. Irish bishops and everyone stand up and pledge not to drink till they're 21. And it's kind of a Catholic version of just they know, I guess. But the

I took him up on it and I took the pledge.

Everybody said to me, don't worry, nobody keeps the pledge,

have a drink. And I said I'm going to queue. I think it might be my alcoholic stubbornness that made me keep the pledge, you know, and going to the seminary is going to be a priest. And I like,

I like that I did it pretty early. Started out early when I was in college. I wrote a paper on alcoholism, went to meetings for research. I read the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous two years before I had a drink and we calculated my odds of being alcoholic.

And this time I was getting more mathematical about it and I thought, I thought I had about a 5050 chance

because it's one out of 10 for the general population.

But it runs in families and it's running in my family in a big time, both sides. And my older brother is showing signs of being normal. And I thought statistically, this was not good for me.

Yeah. And he's,

and he still is. I mean, he's just something.

Well, God is a kind that has a good bottle of Scotch

and at Christmas, after Christmas I just check on it and see. Got the good bottle still. Yeah,

the new version having a good bottle you can check on every Christmas.

Anyway, I was when my pledge was up

21st birthday, I noticed it didn't get by me, you know, not me noticing it. And I was in the summertime. I had a job and I get in the seminary. We were nine months without and I get a job every time.

And so it was time and I went to the store, bought a bottle of bourbon, sweet vermouth, bitters, Murray Chino cherry

that

the Southern Comfort used to put in. These ads staple in the middle of Newsweek and U.S. News Roll Report,

and they give you 16 recipes for America's 16 most beloved cocktails and all the math, you know, figure and a half of this and the dash of that half jigger. And I got that there for a guide and

mixed up a batch of Manhattan and discovered America. You know

it's on.

There was there was no lag time.

It was going straight into obsession, straight into to major discovery. I just couldn't get over it. An alcohol high speaks to me

very deep,

a wordless kind of thing. I'll put something to the word, but the words don't do justice

to the message. The message maybe the most important one, which is they can't get you now. Now who's trying to get you? I don't know, but they can't get me.

I I became embarrassment proof. You know people talking about being bulletproof. Well,

I wasn't around bullocks much, but I was, I was around public humiliation and that's the bullet that felt immune to and I know my IQ went up about 25 points.

I I became convinced anything I'd say would be interesting, and I

took me a long time to realize that's what happened to mankind. Bill, when he.

That is one of nature's major dirty tricks, I think, because those of us who were Alcoholics have two things happened simultaneously. It's not just one here when they're at the same time. The minute we have a bubble, we begin to feel interesting and become boring

just like that.

And so I was alcoholic out of the gate. I

no no doubt about that. It, it reminded me of those

the foil packs of dried food to take camping in the high Sierras and you get boiling water and high altitude and just pour in this little dry stuff and then Spanish rice

and let's pull alcohol and meat. Alcoholic

right here, right.

And I didn't get to drink much. I didn't get drunk that day. There wasn't enough. But I was, I was deeply impressed and I'm it's a big deal to me. Alcohol is a big deal

and it's the biggest deal right now is that I get to be silver a day at a time and available to God's grace to be act like a human being most of the time.

And and the big deal part of it was it's funny. That is if I had any, if I didn't have a bunch of defensiveness, I would have noticed right away, this is at tape. This is a big deal. That means you're obsessed. That means you're alcoholic. Okay, time to quit.

My reaction was, boy, is this ever good. Whatever you did, don't become an alcoholic.

If you're that you can't drink at all, you know,

be careful.

And so, and by the way, there's all kinds of symptoms of the disease. And I read about the symptoms. I did my paper on alcoholism, you know, two years we've had a drink and I I wrote a big chapter on definitions of alcoholism and listed symptoms and I but you know, you can't notice them in yourself that much.

One of the symptoms I think of our diseases that we lie

no, I lied. I don't just tell a lie here and there. I lie as a policy, as

a another let out strict policy.

And when I was doing my line, I said lying right off the bat.

I didn't think, oh, you're lying. I just, it just seemed like exercising my constitutional rights to privacy, you know,

but the light,

you know, I would be careful not to let any say anything to let you know how interested I wasn't drinking, you know, and I wouldn't say anything, let you know how much I was enjoying what I had. And I wouldn't let you know that I had Plan B and plan A fell through about getting about drinking. And I wouldn't let you know how bad I felt the next day because I dreaded that, dreaded anyone saying, well then why do you drink?

Maybe you shouldn't drink so much.

I just I do a lot of maneuvers to get you in a place where you more likely to say that

and the and I was sober for a while when I when I started it's turning to come through to me. You know, just how

isolated I made myself by my lying and and how the lying, which is about invisible, why you start doing it, you know,

and I to kind of bring out

to bring that out for myself. I kind of imagined did it would it would have been like if I ever told the truth.

Now, I never did tell the truth when I was drinking, but if I had, I think it might have gone something like this.

If you invited me over to your house and there was going to be drinking booze there and I didn't have a better offer,

I'd say fine, I'll be over. And if I were going to be truthful that evening, I'd get there and you'd answer the door and I'd say hi, thanks for asking me over.

I'd like to lay my cards on the table and get a few things straight before we start out tonight.

I'm here to drink

and I'd like a I'd like a bubble Scotch right now.

Not after we talk now

to get my stats and say, look, you were nice enough to ask me over, I'm going to be a good guest. You got other people coming over. I'll mix it up and try to keep this thing rolling. You got games to play. I'll play the games.

Just don't get between me and the built bar and we'll get on the right.

Now, in this kind of an evening, I get a little bit gassed,

but usually I get through all right. It's not always in good taste, but you get through without much damage. But once in a while I'll go nuts and

I might throw up in the rug or get in a fight or

attempt a seduction in a particularly tasteless way.

But

but that's the chance you take. When you ask me over,

I have the feeling you weren't honest either.

Anyway, that I went through the rest of my student years drinking when I could, which wasn't very often. I was in a

seminary where they allowed no booth and didn't cheat on that more than once or twice.

And I but I drank when I couldn't summertime. And I'm just so alcoholic. I mean, it was, I wasn't in trouble then 'cause I just couldn't get access. I had nobody. My friends didn't drink much. I had only any money.

I was in a structure life that really encouraged moderation, to say the least.

I was A couple of guys were arguing about who could drink beer the most beer and they, they, they arrange a contest at a pizza parlor and asked me to be the judge

and I won

't ever you notice yourself winning, you're drinking a contest that you're not in, you know, at the time

and the, and there was this,

no, their session was there. The, the, the great excitement when, when I drank, I sometimes I drank like the pizza parlor thing and I got drunk a few times in those early days,

but most of the time I didn't.

But I was interested, you know, it had my full attention.

I was focused on alcohol. If alcohol was in my life, you know, and I would get more than anyone else there, unless you were there, maybe, you know,

And then I, it went through those years and was ordained a priest. And I, I live and work as, as one in Los Angeles right now.

Umm, actually, I get to do a lot of stuff with my brother and sister alcoholic addicts that this kind of fell into as time went on with their directing retreats and working in our personnel department, personnel for priests. And

I've been the one doing interventions for alcoholism, the drug addiction and the clergy for the last 20 years. And you can just imagine how popular I am.

Well, this has a big meal and shoot me when I'm done with this anyway.

And I went down the tubes quickly.

I'm grateful to report there's nothing too spectacular about my my drinking. It's just alcoholic done by by someone with that

who had a Big Lots of motivation to not get in trouble. So I was a bull spider. I was hyper self-conscious about my drinking. I was thinking maybe you're alcoholic really early, you know, just real early. And I thought, well, if I am an alcoholic,

kind of, I'll notice more symptoms as I go along and, and then when they kind of build up a little bit, although it's time to quit and I'll quit so I won't be like my Uncle Bill.

And of course, I was kind of amazed that the symptoms were building up and I wasn't getting motivated to quit. I thought, I wonder what I'm going to quit

in the

and there were just, you know, as bar hopping already home from places that when there was a drinking occasion and I like Skid Row bars. I, you know, I have this, you know, this clean cut kid in his mid 20s stopping on the silver dollar on E 6th St.

But I but it was just, I didn't have any money and it was really more bang for the buck

in bars where they don't have padded MAGA hide, you know, pay for it.

Also, we will have some things in that that we associate with alcoholism. Some people, it's a morning drink. And if you just if you just don't drink in the morning, that means you're not alcoholic. So a lot of people are suffering terribly in our country because they're waiting too long to have a drink. And I'll have a better

the

other people is getting to work. If you get to work, that means you're not an alcoholic, you know, And these are one of those things where on my list, my list, somehow I don't know where I got it. It was if you buy a big bottle late at night,

good okie so you can bar hop your way home. But don't buy a big bottle late at night. That's somehow why would have worked that in was constantly running out and not having anything

and trying to learn the ropes. And I was not cynical about my vocation. I was trying my best,

but you know, just, it was just going like this. And I'm convinced that, you know, alcoholic drinking has A

and on the one hand, I think the reason they call it spirits

is that getting high in alcohol is the closest thing to the spiritual awakening that isn't,

you know, it's declared this thing and feeling, you know, the feeling is transcendence is above it all. I'm flying the little nitpicky things of life don't matter. It's cosmic union. I'm interested in you know,

and I and I want God, you know this. I remember

I was sober for a while before I I recognized this negative feeling that I would get when I begin to drink. I just have a couple of drinks and then to be a shadow of cloud and and that's super while I thought, you know, think that cloud is the fact that when I drink,

the minute I get high, I realize that I'm going to have to come down. That's very depressing. I I don't want to come down. I want to get high a little higher and a little higher. Right through the cloud you see the face of the living God.

That's all.

And

and somebody give me knows that's not going to happen. You know,

we're gonna get tired. It can get late every two months. You'll be screwed up and it's just depressing. And and so you can't admit you have that feeling. You gotta be sober about 10 years before you can even begin to say that. You know, you wouldn't likely say a symptom. You know, we did the party you're starting and you look like you have a little something in your eyes tells me you're not peaceful with everything. You know, how how how's it going? Well, I'm just kind of depressed, but I can't stay loaded forever

and

and I'm not ready to say that

to but that's so it's something like a spiritual awakening and at the same time, it's the exact opposite of a spiritual awakening. Now I think of a genuine spiritual awakening, one of the other than the the very heart of a spiritual awakening of being in the presence of God in a way that touches you deep in the deepest part of yourself. And that has the effect of

bringing the life, the child of God within and

and acting like a child of God.

You know, we have our that that light is too bright, you know, and if you want a life like examining the sun or something, examine what it does. And I did a look at the effects of a storage and awakening, like the most reliable effect of aspirin awakening to me is that

it's very natural to identify in love with other people.

It's treat people basically, you know, actually have tolerance and love.

And

when I have a couple of double scotches, that's exactly what I don't do. That's exactly I had a little chance of relating and paying attention to you. But once I have a drink, I am owned by the drinking process. I am my life energy is taken up. You do like a vacuum cleaner into the drinking project and I'm I'm all for you. I hope you do all right. It's just that I can't actually care for you right now.

I mean, I, I had the time with something, I'd be happy to do it, but I'm really busy right now with the fishing project. Maybe later, but you know. But right now, too bad

I can barely handle old stuff, right? I can't afford new stuff.

I can't even hardly hang on with the old stuff. So you know, I can't listen to you because it's actually care for you right now. I mean, I had the time was something I'd be happy to do it, but I'm really busy right now with the drinking project. Maybe later, but you know. But right now, too bad

I can barely handle old stuff, right? I can't afford new stuff.

I I can't even hardly hang on with the old stuff. So no, I can't listen to you because it's. I'm just too busy

and

and so I can't, I have to treat you badly. What? I kind of like you and I have no bad intentions. I just don't listen to you. I can't care about you in any effective way. Otherwise, as the big book says, I step on the toes of others and

make decisions in the past based on self that later pushed me. First me in the position to be hurt.

And every time I'm under the influence of alcohol, I will step on your toes

because of the decision based on self. And I will, I'll give you a little bit disturbed with me,

you know, I'll get you hurt and disappointed and I'll get you so that you really aren't so happy to see me coming. And I'll say, you know, look at this world, you know, you think people would be nicer. They're supposed to be able to love each other. Not a lot of me very much, you know,

and I, and I'll blame you for what I've done to you.

It's 6 Eleanor's yearly to catch on to that.

Anyway, I got into a routine of,

of drinking Greeks

and I, I started quitting and I'd quit for a few days and then drink and I was kind of doing that and then I quit for six months, one time, almost six months, say, yeah, you can't say five months and three weeks, something like that. And,

and at the end of that time, I was very impressed with myself that I quit

and I, and I thought, well, you put for almost six months, this proves you've got the talent to quit. And as long as you're sure you got the talent to quit, you might as well start

because if there's any trouble in the future, just quick past because you can do it. You you told you can do it.

And so I did that and on the vacations are drinking again and it was bad.

I was, you know, forgot drinking all that time. I'm vacation in New York, nodding out at 4:00 in the morning on a subway by myself, thinking it's probably not a very good idea

and that kind of thing. And

and so that that went on and when I after that, I quit a lot. This is a life of quitting. And I and if you say, you know, I think you're alcoholic and yeah, I am. But I'm as you want to go to a well, if I went to a a so just try to just made a try to convince me of a lot of things that I already know, you know, you're trying to say it's a disease. Well, I know that, you know,

it'll try to say first thing, get you drunk. Let me tell you

what kind of story. And so I just went on and off and I finally decided I quit quitting because I thought quitting

if if you put renew for life on 10 * a month, it will affect yourself esteem.

And so I

so I decided if I quit quitting, I'll be cool. I won't drink. I won't drink so much when I start again, you know. And so I quit putting and settled into a groove of drinking about 1/5 of whiskey a day.

That's way too much. Not nearly enough

drink like that. It's it, you know, it destroys your life and kills you,

but at the same time it's, you know, 1/5.

That's less than a quart.

I mean, it takes great discipline

to drink a fifth a day. You know, you have to, you know, plan

so he's not. You're only going to drink one out of every five times you need one

and then you can make the bottle last around the clock. I've never done anything more difficult than that. And I couldn't do that all the time and I'd skip days. I think nature just saying, you know, don't drink today and I I'd be kind of puzzle me days. I didn't drink

and and I was you know, I was a mess

begin missing things got in trouble with my boss. We decided I shouldn't I I I got a suggestion. I just I won't drink anymore. He said I was gonna suggest that myself and

then I wouldn't drink anymore for a little while and start drinking again and that that went around about three or four times and

and I would be and mostly not in public. But it was bad. I know I got

stuff all this anonymous, but I know I I abused any other chemical that I got my hands on that was near. I have a bad back still do and a real I was in hospital for bad back. They gave me some Piccadilly. I thought it was Lent and I we're going to have a special ceremony for the kids, the stations across and I'm going to leave that.

And I thought you should be sober for that.

And

so I thought

I took a couple Perkins on that calm me down and I wouldn't have to drink Scotch.

So I took a couple Percodan. It calmed me down, and

instead of giving me the impression I didn't need any Scotch, it kind of made me forget why I wasn't going to drink any scarf.

The and I. And that was the true station to the Cross. I'll tell you,

I trudged

around it with,

you know, it's a deep worry that this is not going to be a disgrace. And I, I somehow I think I got through, but I'm not too sure.

And I, and then then I was turned into the big boss. And

you know when we finally get, I got fired and turned into the big boss, all you know, and hospitalized for alcoholism, all of course, of about a week and a half. And you know, when we finally get in trouble, finally get in big trouble getting nailed,

you know it's

relatives. Find out your friends might. Oh, no, in jail,

like the car, you know, fired the hospital. No, we wouldn't get other people's attention with these deals. But you know, I, my own feeling, I, I'm, I think Alcoholics here share. It's kind of a secret we have

is that when we get in big trouble, we're not that impressed.

No,

we live with a sense of doom every day. And when doom finally arrives, it's not that much of A contrast to a regular day.

We are empty and without any resources and don't care whether we'll ever die. And so kind of spices things up a little bit, you know, get to go downtown, you know, talk to the big boss.

Good to go to a hospital. Hospitals are neat. They pay attention to you. They have staffing, you know, just sitting there, you know, a whole bunch of professionals behind that door just talking about, you

know, we'll figure out your situation. You know,

so I was fired and I went to a hospital for had aversion treatments. And that's not a widespread thing. Thank God. I had one in Texas, Dallas, I went up to Spokane and it's it'll give you a nausea drug and warm salt water and something to drink and and you're supposed to it's a Pavlov dog approach to sobriety. They create this intent, this

association between taste and smell and look of alcoholic beverages,

intense nausea. It's a different principle than abuse. But anyway, and I'm going to go into that, that's not going to help anyone too spiritually.

But as part of my story and I and I went through that like a champ. I'm good at hospitals.

I am a person to highly structured living situations and, and I know how to make alcoholic counselors feel fulfilled,

the right thing. And I went through that week, you know, just doing well. And they say alcoholic fine. I, I agreed to everything and I really thought I just thought I would never drink again. When I got out of there it was so clear I wasn't arguing with anything

and they transferred me to a new place 100 and some miles away from where I was. Started up again in a new parish and 1st little meeting I went to

this I've been a parish meeting. It wasn't a a meeting in this. This woman said to me oh it's so nice to see you here Father so young and healthy looking. They used to just send Alcoholics up here all the time

and

I thought I for a thing and I was

few weeks after that or a month or so, I was invited to dinner

and by the pillar of the parish it was kind of a look over the new guy, you know, kind of a normal thing. And Sunday afternoon and I had a revelation obsession the previous Thursday evening.

Two kinds of obsession, revelation type and wear down type. The revelation type, you're going along, it's clear you're alcoholic. To drink is to die. Got that straight? Then you get this revelation. In 20 minutes, you're going to have a drink,

Dan.

And a drink, huh. Well, I didn't have a drink. And the other kind of revelation

obsession is the word on type. That's when I catch on to the revelation thing. You don't fall for it. And you say, listen, dummy, you're an alcohol. You've been in the hospital, you're going to die if you drink, don't drink. And you feel like having a drink a week or so later and say, look, you're no good at drinking. You're a depressed mess. The first hour you're drinking doesn't work for you. It's over, don't drink.

Couple weeks later I feel like having a drink and give myself a long talk,

give myself quote everything from the alcoholic counselors, quote from my term paper

and after I'm all done I feel like having a drink.

Let's say anybody who still wants a drink after all I've explained to you

and after all you've been through, it's so weird that you're not worth working on and you might as well have a drink. And I would have a drink out of humiliation. But I wanted a drink anyway. That first time when I, I began drinking wine and I, I showed up at the dinner having been drinking wine for three days and I was not in good shape and, and we called

and they called dinner and I find, oh, good, we're having dinner and I'll do all right because I'm not going to be drinking. They didn't have one at the table.

I knew that my liver was just working. It's working like crazy. You know, it's a

metabolize that alcohol in my system are just kind of taking those molecules by the million and breaking them down into assortaldehyde and water and sugar. And I had this model of a alcohol molecules pretty big one. It's a carbon hydrogen. I pictured them breaking down and

they passed the

there was roast beef and some red vegetable and some mashed potatoes. Little gravy. I finally got everything on my plate and I woke up down there.

I came up slow, hoping nobody had noticed.

They said, Are you all right? I said just behind a little tired.

And what I, what I thought was very unfair was that every time I got straightened up and was all right, I'd wake up again down there and I,

I never remember going down it. I felt, you know, like it was the cheating on me or something. And I got to go back and I, I went back to that hospital five times until they asked me never ever to call him up again.

Morale problem for the other patients and the and I got the detox the sixth time in a psych hospital in downtown Los Angeles,

and that was when my higher part begin to draw me, I think, into recovery. And you know, be careful when anyone tells what God's up to,

but I just want to say I'm not telling it with God was up to. I'm just giving a poor interpretation of the experience I had. You know, an experience I had was after I got through detox, I,

I just knew. It's like a revelation came up within me and it said

you're going to be drunk again pretty soon.

Nothing you do. It doesn't matter what you try hard, get drunk anyway. Doesn't matter what book you read, what prayer you pray, what resolution you make, what counsel you talk to. Doesn't matter. You're a flake. Something wrong with you. You're alcoholic, but there's something else wrong with you. You do not have the capacity to care Whatever. And you think whatever in human beings,

whatever human beings need in order to care, you're missing that thing. You just,

you know, recovery becomes a little, little boring, you know, and have a drink. And so I just thought, you know, you are truly hopeless. And, and I believe that was a gift. That's a grace to me. That's a gift from God. But I I feel I was permitted to feel my powerlessness over alcohol.

I haven't had a drink since that day but I'm sure I would snuck some pills and changed my sobriety date. Another story, but

and I went out of that detox over to into New Jersey. They, I got to winter in Jersey

in a recovery house for priests, Alcoholics in the and they were so old. I, I was the youngest 1 by 16 years. I mean, they were old. They were as old as I am now.

We had no no business rigging. They should have quit years ago.

And I

I was so sure that Alcoholics Anonymous would not work for me that I was relaxed at meetings. I was not on the edge of my chair wondering, will this help? I went to meetings every day. You had to go to four a week or they or they wouldn't feed you.

And I went tomorrow. I went to at least eight a week because I like the guys who were nervous wrecks. You know, I'll go, I'll go, I'll go. The other place you can go to was a meeting. And so I went to meetings every day and they

I had no idea that I was ready for something, you know, no idea.