Mark and Dave on Steel on Steel, how they do it and how it's helped their recovery

When do I recommend somebody do stay on steel? My experience is steel on steel. For those of you don't know where I was going to talk about this later on and we will go into it more detail, Steel on steel is basically like a fifth step.

It's getting together and you have spiritual commitment with each other to pull each other towards God. All right, Which means for me, my experience is you need to have a relationship with God. And so until you've done inventory, you don't have relationship with God. So I like to tell people that if you want to do steel on steel, finish your amends, get through the 9th step and go do it. I've seen people that are almost done with their amends who are able to start steel on steel, although it's few and far between

guys that are still carrying guilt and remorse of the harms and they haven't cleaned it up. Their ego will use that and I'll get into steel on steel and next thing you know, it's three years later and they still haven't finished up the last three amends,

finish the amends and then jump into steel on steel. And it's like doing a regular inventory on a regular basis. At least that's my experience. What's yours with them are it's it's the very same as iron sharpens iron. So one man or one woman sharpens another.

I I'll share a little bit about that right now, I guess. Why not?

When I got down to Kerrville, TX in 9192, I guess,

and Chris can tell you this, I, I guess I've been down there about two years and I got very, very clear that myself, delusion and sobriety had almost killed me.

And I also got very clear that the idea of one man, say a sponsor being able to help me with that was placing a burden on someone that they, I had no business placing. So, you know, I was doing some 11 step reading one night and I like to read proverbs. I like stories, you know, and proverbs is stories. But so I'm reading Proverbs and Proverbs 2717 says

as iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another and man that that that wouldn't leave me. And so I thought, you know, I'm going to do something with that. So I got ahold of Chris and

another gentleman I sponsor, Dale and another man, Dan, and trying to think of who else see me, there's one other one. Oh yeah, The gentleman at that time who had some of the longest sobriety in that town, who incidentally, after a period of time left steel and steel because his ego could not handle it.

He could not handle the considerations that he was posed by somebody who was much younger in sobriety than him.

And so we had the first meeting and basically here's the format that we utilize. We like to open with some meditation. Today I have a two page form that I use

and we use timers. One of the things that that I've learned, again, I guess this is about simplicity, but I'm a bullet person and

Alcoholics. I, I can always tell when an alcoholic is, is going to justify selfishness because before they ever get to what it is, are going to tell me, they, they go through a 15 minute explanation laying out the 9 course dinner and then they tell me what I'm going to eat. And I that really makes me gun shy. So in steel and steel we use a timer and you only get 10 minutes and we start out in

and currently what we do right now is I talk about first of all, where my exactly with the circle and triangle? How many medians have I gone to? Right now I'm meeting every two weeks with two men. How many means have gone to in the last 14 days, in the last 14 days? This is back to discipline is the horse I right? How many morning prayers did I do? How many morning meditations? How long were these meditations? How many evening reviews did I do? Am I doing a written evening review? How many evening meditations did I do?

Was the length of those?

Where are each of the people I sponsor in the steps? Am I accountable as a sponsor? Am I accountable to someone specifically? What step am I on?

And then it goes on once once they're done asking questions about the strict disciplines of 1011 and 12. Then it goes on to say, are you having any problems in relationships, IE work, coworkers, a, a, et cetera.

Then it says what's going on in your significant other relationship. Then it gets into money. Are you planning to spend any money over $200.00? We threw that in there right now because two of the men that I'm doing this with have unfinished financial amends. So right now they both have everything they need. So if they are they, I got them to agree that before they'll ever spend any sum of money over 200, they'll call the other two men and seek counsel. Cause what that

is, since he still owe men's, they would be once again stealing from these same people they've already stolen from once And, and they're, you know, so that's in there. Are you planning any purchases over $200?

I can see some of you already going. Who wants that kind of accountability right

in there is your physical health, what's going on with your physical health? And we talk about that when I started steel on steel

I I weighed probably about £250. I had great medical insurance and I hadn't had a physical in probably 10 years.

I mean, it was unbelievable to us. And so we begin to ask these questions and I'm here to tell you, as a result of steel and steel, I get yearly physicals every year. Dermatologist,

I take good care of myself in that area with exception of smoking. So the physical health pieces on there, what are you doing with that? Then we like to work with the definition of honesty. Say what you do, do what you say, how you been doing with that, say what you do, do what you say. See and you take a look at that every area of your life, are you getting to work on time etcetera. Then the last question on the form that we use is do you keep your word?

And then we've got some little reminders. Use the word consider, done in love,

that kind of stuff. Then what happens is

I shut the timer off, I pull out a notebook and those two men, based on everything that I've shared will ask me to consider some things. See give an example of of some of some of the considerations. One that they gave me about a month ago is they want me to consider a lot less travel and a lot more involvement in a a where I live.

So I write that down consideration. And of course, I'm sober much longer than both these guys. So I have to look at them and thank them

because our agreement is you cannot defend because the ego wants to defend. What else did they ask me to consider? They asked me to consider that maybe I was working with too many people, that I was placing too much of A burden of myself with my with my career and trying to work out and do this and do that and do that. So I'm writing these considerations down.

When it when we're done with that, then what I did is for

the next two weeks, I took those considerations in a prayer and meditation. And I can tell you that I made some decisions off that, that very next week, I went to five meetings. See, steel and steel allows me to defeat my ego and use it to my benefit. If you all think I'm showing up at Steel and Steel with two guys with less sobriety and and they're going to confront me again about not having enough meetings in my own hometown, you are wrong.

I'm going to go to that meeting even if I don't want to be there. See,

that's how steel and steel can benefit. But I'll tell you off that already. I did cancel a bunch of stuff I can't steal. And steal is one of the most important practices I've ever had in my life, and I've had it pretty well consistently since about 1994. That kind of accountability, unbeknownst to me, where you got to understand if, if you do what I'm talking about, there isn't any secrets in your life, are there?

And, and they're asking you to consider things. And really over the years, what it did

is it opened just totally opened up my ego, if you will. But most Alcoholics when they hear about this format, they don't want anything to do with it because we lead secret lives

financial, you know, you, you name it and we don't, we don't want that kind of accountability. Myself, delusion, my unwillingness to face that kind of accountability. I told you where it got me at 10 years. I love that kind of accountability. I love that kind of kind of discipline. Now understand something else

we do steal and steal from an Ave. of love. Now I'm not here to try and tell anyone what they have to do with their life

by virtue of self delusion, meaning I fall asleep dreaming. I'm awake steal and steal is about are you asleep to this? See I was asleep to the idea that as you begin to get older in your life, it's probably a good idea to go get a yearly physical so that by the time you find out you have cancer, your whole body is not full of it. Just little simple things like that that I was asleep to right. So that's what we do. Like, we currently

meet every two weeks,

but as you can see, it covers every area of my life. Now, there's a strange thing about this

is surprisingly enough, the first half of this form that I like to use is all the things that we need to do is stay in fit spiritual condition. Right now, strangely enough, when I report and I'm doing all those things, the second-half of my life, which is that I'm in the world to play the role of God as a sign, it seems very clean and very smooth and very peaceful.

Surprisingly enough, when the first half has a bunch of holes in it. Like I only meditated 2 times last week. I went to one meeting.

I'm not sure what step I'm on. I'm not working with anyone. It is incredible what the bottom half looks like, meaning your job and relationships and physical health. And so when when I meet with with the men that I work with and, and I do that fairly religiously, they always bring that form with them and they know me well enough. If they got a bunch of holes in the top half, I will not talk to him about the bottom half. Don't talk to me about your relationship with your girlfriend when you

and unwilling to do the disciplines of 10/11 for a week. Get out of my house.

They get out of my house. I'm not going to talk about it. It's just dribble. It's a waste of time. See go on. Just get away from me. I don't want what you get out of here, see,

because what's going to happen as a result of not doing the disciplines, then what have they taken into that area of their life, their selfishness and their self will. So what, they're going to report back as well? We had this big fight and this blow up, my employers all pissed off and I haven't been feeling good physically and I'm lethargic and I go, oh, let's see, no prayer, no meditation. Gee, I wonder if there's any connection here, right.

And, and so any rate, that's what steel and steel is. That's how, that's how I use it. I, I again, I, I will tell you

it's one of the best disciplines I've ever brought into my life. It has helped me beyond belief. I mean, Mr. Chris, who you'll hear tonight will tell you he, he and I are involved in that for years. And you develop a closeness, a carrying, a compassion.

See, you know, Dave brought up something and this is so important.

Here's these people in his group watching him drift off into La La land that he could drink behind and nobody's saying anything to him, you know, and, and steel and steel ultimately for me, became a vehicle in which men that I cared about and loved about deeply areas in which they would fall asleep, think they were dreaming, they were awake. I could bring that to their attention. I did that in the spirit of love. I didn't do it in a spirit of judgment. I didn't do it, you know, in anything else. So

that's a little bit about about steel on steel,

I think Dave I think brought some forms which are pretty similar. The ones I have in in A use for it. I can tell you from my experience, if you get more than about four people, it's it's just about too many. It may may take too long, but and I'll be happy to answer any other questions about that

during the course of the weekend. And I guess we are just about ready to eat dinner. So then tonight you're going to get the Chris R show.

I guess we're going to break for a couple hours, if I understand that, and meet back here at 7. I got just one more thing to add to steel on Still, since we're talking about it,

steel on steel, when I first started it, I was getting I, I chose three people to do it with. There's a magic of the number of four. I've done it in different size groups. There's a magic of four. Don't ask me what it is, it's just my experience.

A3 Oftentimes you'll get a consideration where you'll say this. They'll say one guy will say, was it possible that you need to do this? And the other guy will say, is it possible? You need to do that. And they're diametrically opposed. So who's going to break the tie? If you guys are saying, is it possible over here? One guy saying, is it possible over here? Chances are you're hearing the voice of God. You kind of get an idea where you need to go. So there's a magic of the number of four

second item. Don't be surprised if you change. Do not attempt steal on steel if you don't want to change

because remember, God's grace lasts only as long as ignorance. They will show it to you. We call them IIP questions. Everything is in the form of is it possible IIP colon boom. Is it possible that you need to look at this? Is it possible that you get an unlimited amount of time to report back to the group on the questions they gave you last time? Well, you asked me about this and here's what I did. You asked me about that and here's what I did. Then I asked the question. Is there anything I didn't cover that you want to hear about from last time I shared?

Then we hacked the clock and you got 10 minutes. The reason for the 10 minutes is absolutely critical

because you in 10 minutes, your ego doesn't have the opportunity to set up a story to make you look a certain way.

You got to put the truth on the table and you got to put it on the table right now.

And the last thing is steel on steel is about commitment. Don't come to my steel on steel group with the same problem month after month after month after month. It's about change, you know,

and there are no holds barred. Every door is open. We talk about sex specifically. How is it going on in your life? We talk about the Internet. We talk about masturbation. If it's going on, we talk about The Dirty, nasty deeds that are going on. How's the hairy eyeball? You're going to be talking about that

summertime, you're at the beach on vacation. Were you having a problem with that? You know, were you mentally undressing other women? What's going on in your life? We talk about every possible thing that's can come up on the table and it's all open for discussion. When I first started my first steel on steel group, the wives of the guys that are in my steel and steel group were saying, now this is pretty cool. And all of a sudden these guys started growing really fast. And it puts a lot of pressure inside a relationship when you start doing what's right because now you're holding up the spiritual mirror, right?

And next thing you know, the YS are I'm not sure if I want this to continue. Some of them, some of the other ones. My wife begs me for steel on steel because she see the benefits if I miss a steel on steel, meaning she's like, when's the next meeting? And she'll arrange her whole schedule to open up a hall, cover the kids. You got steel and steel right here. OK. She's she's a tremendous support for steel on steel changed my life.

Try it. But you got to want to change. All right, the forms are pretty specific. I give you it's a whole meeting package. There's the reading that we intro with. It's a description of steel on steel, what steel on steel is about, what it's not about. And then lastly, there's a there's a reading that we do out of the big book, which is from page 62 forward. And it talks about why we're there and who who the problem is and where do we get the power from.

Something I just added to Steel on steel.

All of us happen to be Christian in our steel and steel group. At the end of our steel on steel now we started to break bread together. You want a powerful spiritual experience. If you have something like that that's part of your religion, do it together as a group. We openly pray together. We pray for each other. We have prayer lists that go on for each other for the problems that are in each other's lives. It's, it's dramatic the way it's affected my life and the things, the areas that have changed.

It's I, I can't say enough good stuff about it now. It's not a A,

but man is it affect your AAA. You want to really be get sharp. It's like doing a fist step once a month. I happen to do it once a month because of schedules. I wish I could do it every two weeks. It just doesn't work in my life that way. Everybody that I chose for steel on steel in my group, we're all basically the same. We're all within about 10 years of each other age wise. We're all married. We're all double digit digit sobriety. We've all been going to couples meetings for a lot of years. I've been to go into couples meetings in a A for over 15 years.

Two of the three of us have kids. Excuse me, three of of the four of us have kids. One guy has since dropped out. So I'm now back in a situation. We have three of us in our steel and steel group. And as a group, we're trying to decide how we're going to handle that. Are we going to add somebody? What are we going to do right now? We're going with it and seeing how it goes. So it's an it's the ultimate challenge. You know, my sponsor used my effect. My Home group. I used to have belong to this group that had an unwritten motto. You think you're working the program? Show us your family and we'll tell you how. Well,

in the program, steel on steel will really sharpen that up. Because you can't live in that state of disillusionment when you got three other guys pulling you towards God. That's what it's all about. In the spirit of love, pulling each other shoulder to shoulder. Nobody's the sponsor, nobody's a sponsee, nobody's the guru, Nobody's in charge except God. And that's what the deal's about. Let's go eat.