The Fellowship and the difference between telling your story and 12th-stepping at St. John's University, July 27-29 2001

Hope everybody's relaxed. We're about to not get relaxed. I give you a little idea of what the format's tonight. We got Chris odd to speak for the next hour or so and then Mark and Dave are going to come back and join him and a bunch of his filled out some questions that you gathered over the last day and 1/2 that we had. I'm sure I saw people squirming in their seats a little bit, including myself,

and it stirred up some questions and they're going to try and answer some of them

and let's see, why did I get, why did we get Chrysia, I guess real quick the first time Dave handed me a tape of Chris and I was listening to it in the car and I was ready to just about drive over to the airport and get on a plane to Texas because I thought this guy needs help. He is angry.

And then I put the tape on at home and I listened to what he said and I identified a lot and I felt exactly he wasn't angry. He was full of passion for this program,

umm, just like myself, and I couldn't deny a thing that he said. And he actually got me passionate again, more passionate for what this program has done for me. So we asked him to come down here and share his passion with us about what we've been talking about this weekend. So Chris saw.

Can you all hear me? All right?

I won't need this in a few minutes. Anyway.

My name is Chris Raymer. I'm a recovered alcoholic who's fixing to lose his voice. This is something I picked up in Texas. I guarantee you this is not anything I can't blame on New York. This is an amazing thing. Here. I give me a second. I, I, man, I need to thank the cats that made this made this possible. Bart and and Rick and and all that all the bud beneath it. I just,

I, I travel a lot. I, I get to speak, I'm honored to get to do anything in Alcoholics Anonymous. I also speak some in, in our sister fellowships of cocaine Anonymous and I, I travel a lot and get to come to lots of conferences. And of course, it's just, it's the obligatory thing to do, you know, Oh well, this is such a nice place, you know, and you've, you've been tortured all day long, you know, but the truth is, I mean, this was so well organized and I mean, great service from top to bottom and I'm, I'm honored to be here. I'm, I'm a little, I'm blown away by New York. I,

you know, it's like every time I travel someplace, I says, well, Chris, you know, trying to act like a tourist, you know, but then, but how can we flew in over to LaGuardia last night and flew right over the city. And it's like, you know, Jeannie was my, my wife's here with me and she, she's, she's got the aisle seat, right. And so it was like a minute. It was like,

wait a minute, I'm the one that's speaking. I need the aisle seat, You know, I mean, I was like, I'll just crawl over, you know, we're looking out the windows. It's like, it's like y'all live in a tremendous place. I, I, I've been blown away. Next time we'll come back and get to spend a little more time. Jeannie got to do some sightseeing today and

I got to sit and listen to two of my absolute heroes in this fellowship. Mark Houston is my sponsor and he he will keep me honest tonight, I guarantee you. And and Dave, Dave I met, I met, I don't know, a couple years ago. It's he, I got a call out of clear blue sky and he says this Chris Raymer and and he, he was in San Antonio, which is an hour drive from where I live. And I live in a little town called Ingram, Texas and it is

a

well, it is just as country as can be. It's an Ingram, Texas.

We all have wives and, and, and date sheep there in Ingram, Texas. I I don't know, that's

the first thing in divorce court. Was it a sheep or was it a real woman? And it's like, it's pretty country. It's pretty stupid up there. And I'm sorry. I I need to take. But anyway, Dave came up and sat in a little big book with us and I just out of clear blue, showed up and we got to visit him and he's been a bud ever since. And I honor and respect him for carrying a message. I need to tell you, you know, he spent a lot of time today apologizing right off the bat, you know, you know, from cussing and the tone of his voice and the way he made him have looked at you. And I'm just, I'm not that spiritually fit like I I'm.

Yeah, I'm not. You know, I'm going to tell you when the door is going to be my attempt not to cuss. I don't think it's respectful. But. But I can tell you right now, I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to fail miserably at it. So you might as well. You might as well. No. And if it offends you, go away. I don't know what to tell you. I don't know what to tell you.

It's a character defect. It's, it's, it's being removed from me, not too, too damn quick, but it's being removed. And I, I, I don't know, 13 years ago, guys, a God, God did a number on me. And after years in and out of the fellowship, he removed the obsession

for me to drink and drug. And I'm pretty, pretty passionate about that. I got a friend in Kerrville that said one time he said, he said, he said he comes from Houston. And he said it's a tragedy that we, some of us in our fellowships have to feel out of place in the, in our, the own, our own fellowship, the fellowship that saved our life. We've got to feel uncomfortable in those rooms because the message we're carrying is so different from the message that most people are carrying out there. And, and, and that's the truth. It's

it's it's sad

that if you're a big book thumper in most parts of this country, you are ostracized.

And I'm going to talk a little bit about this and I want everybody, please, I'm not going to get long winded. I can promise you I won't keep you here longer than about 45 minutes. But, and I'm going to say some things tonight that I can assure you are going to are going to, you know, you will either,

you will either bond with me,

we will, we will share Christmas cards and swap spits. I mean, we will,

we will, we will bond or you will do like happens every time I speak. I spend, I speak lots and lots folks. And I've never seen it fail. And you will, you will wait for me at the door and to take exception with something I've said. And I and I and I'm down with that folks. I just want, I want to make it kind of clear here. You know, this is this is what the fellowship's about. Y'all ask me to come up here and share my experiences. They've alluded to it earlier. This is my experience. Doesn't have to be your experience.

If what I say goes exactly against what you believe,

That's that's one of the cool things about this deal. I you can believe whatever you want to believe. If it's working for you, bop till you drop.

But but I need to tell you a couple of things, right? I need to tell you a couple of things right off the bat. You see where my passion comes from. What Bart said is so true. You know, it's like it hurts my feelings sometimes because sometimes when people pick up tapes of mine, they don't know me and they don't listen to the first part where I'm trying to explain where I'm coming from. All I hear is this guy screaming on the other guy. This is one real angry individual. You know what I'm going to? I'm going to tell you I'm as quiet and I'm as.

Y'all sit right here and watch me sit right there where Jeannie watch me all day long and never open my mouth. I'm as quiet and shy as you can get right up to the point you want to start talking to me about this. And then little something deep down inside says this is your chance buddy. This is this is, this is it. You know,

people have been dissing you all your life. Now you can get even with them back,

you get a chance that you get a chance to say,

I nearly died getting to these rooms. My first attempt at Alcoholics Anonymous was about 1980. And, and, and I'm, and I'm going to talk a little bit about that, but I, I'm in and out of the fellowship for years. And, and, and Jesus, just, you know, I just, I walk into the rooms and, and you, you tell me I'm going to always be recovering and then that I'm going to have to admit that I'm powerless. And and then you start talking about every God damn problem in the world and I'm just, you know, and I and you, pretty soon you chase me out of the room

and you know, and then, and then I come back in because I got arrested again or she's fixing to leave again, you know, and I made a new commitment. I'm going to come in. I'm going to pick up another one of those stupid desire chips. And then I'm going to sit there and listen for another week while you tell your

war stories over and oh, yeah, we can all do it. You know, you can tell you're preaching to the client history. I mean, it's like,

and this is where I'm coming from, folks, at the end of that eight-year stint in and out of the fellowship, I tried to commit suicide in 1987 and ended up back in a room full of people that were carrying big books and understood that you could recover from this stuff. And that the book meant what it said. And that if you had an opinion that was contrary to what the book said, you might want to keep it to yourself.

I gotta wear cheaters, too. They say that they make these little monocles. I think that's what I need is a little monocle thing. I don't know. I need to show you this. I was reading this the other day. It's in a box. 459. Alcoholics Anonymous produces it here. We may have somebody from Central Service if you're in the audience tonight, since we're this close to New York.

Let's visit after the meeting.

I have a message to give some of them fat cats back up there. I guarantee you it's a one of these little articles here and this is where I'm coming from. I'm going to jump around a little bit and I'm going to get into this in just a second, but I need to explain it. It says this is a little report from the General Service Board. He says

the GSO continues to be in good financial condition. The only worrisome trend is a long term steady decline in sales of AA literature.

I'm going to be speaking in tongues before this thing is 15 minutes into this.

Listen folks, if I only worry that the fellowship is that literature sales are a bit down. It's a shame on us. We've we've got a fellowship that that 66 years ago had a success rate of better than 75% in the Midwest. You can go to any archive around folks around Cleveland, Akron, They had success rates of nearly 100% in lots of areas in the early days, the first few years of Alcoholics Anonymous, everybody that came through the door got sober. And right now in the United States,

if you can find any place, it's got a better than a 20% success rate, it's a miracle.

You think we got, I mean, come on, folks, we got to get straight here. Why am I so fat? People want to take shots at me all the time. Oh, Chris Kramer, you know, you shouldn't be, you shouldn't be ripping a A, But you know this, it's like, I'm not, but this is my fellowship. And the fellowship as a whole needs to wake up and start looking and seeing what we're doing here. We are not getting well in a A. But you see, where the controversy comes is because you got well in a A. You slipped under the door. You, you got through the cracks and you think everybody else should be able to do it. But the truth is, all you got to do is look at the success rates and stop making excuses

to a meeting and justice. Ask yourself, it's like is the message that we're hearing today in a a the same message that they heard 66 years ago? And you will ask you ask any of the old, they'll tell you without a question. No, absolutely not. Absolutely not.

I do clerical work for a treatment center in Texas and I am not a counselor or therapist. I love counselors and I love therapy. And don't ever, don't ever misquote me because I I'll hunt you down and shoot. You don't

I have taken, I have taken more ribbon from that stuff where you hate therapy. I'm a product of good therapy folks. I'm seeing one today about some other stuff. Folks. AA is not a catch all for every problem in the world and shame on us for trying to make it a catch all for every problem in the world. Y'all understand that and see if you see that this is what's happened to Alcoholics Anonymous. And so I, I, I go into this treatment center and when all of these cats are coming through, we got about 1000 people through there a year and I'm asking these cats, it's a high dollar facility and I'm asking them. I says, buddy, did you ever go to a A Oh yeah,

at AA. It didn't work. Oh, oh, I see. Huh. Damn, it worked for me, you know, so, so what's let's get on down there. Why did? Oh, no, it didn't. And here's what they tell me, guys. And you can ask, Mark, anybody that's around the business, you can ask these cats, what excuses are they using to not stay in a A war stories and people pissing and moaning about their problems.

And so I just come up and speak from the podium around the country and Canada, wherever I'm speaking. And I talk about this and I offend people because you think it's your God-given right to walk into a meeting and puke all over the table and let somebody else clean it up. You think it's your right to turn my a A meeting into a damn therapy session?

It is not

This is your. This is your cute. All you big boys that I've been tapping on the shoulder all day long is your cue to move forward. Now

give me some water. Yeah, 'cause I'm fixing to get rushed here.

I want to make something real clear though. I want to make something real clear because the 1st

I know, I really, I know really bless you. Thanks,

she said. Yeah, I'll fix the little bastard. I know, right?

Hey, what's up with this shit? What's up with this over here? We can't now. I can't see him. Listen,

what's up with you, Mark? Come on, Bubba. It's Rick. If they start rushing me from his side of the brother

down there with that brother, somebody better have my back. I guarantee you.

All right, all right, But let me tell you where I'm coming from here because the bottom line is, and I'm sure Mark and Dave touched on this last night, we were tied up in the airport and couldn't get here, but I'm sure they touched on this business. The truth of the matter is Alcoholics Anonymous, we assume a lot in a a. We assume it because you're sitting in this room that you're an alcoholic. And I'm going to tell you something, folks, that's an assumption that can get you killed because you got to be careful who you're listening to. Somebody comes in and they start acting like they know what they're talking about around medicine. You assume they're a doctor. No, you're going to check the credentials, but somebody comes in and starts telling you

how to work the steps and you assume that they know what they're talking about just because they got some drivetime under their belt. But the long and short of it is, they may not even be one of us. You all understand that in order to get sober, what you may need to do is go to the gym and get laid a little bit more

at work. It works for a lot of people. I mean, I, you know,

only only about 15% of us, only about 15% of us in this world folks are alcoholic and addict guys. Only about 15%. That's a big percentage though. Still, 85% of the people can take this stuff or leave it alone. The only requirement for membership, they say short form anyway, is a desire not to drink any more on it comes to the door. I don't want to drink today. One day at a time. Great.

Never even had a problem with alcohol, never even had a problem with a drinking problem. But he comes in and women are goddamn good looking. The coffee is great, fellowships, you bar none but the best in the West. So I'll just stay one day at a time

and kill them by the thousands with their bullshit

and kill them by their thousands for their bullshit. Because let me tell you something, Their life doesn't depend on getting connected spiritually.

Here's what the book says. Here's what the

it's going to be the problem section right here I can see.

Come on, girls. For those who are unable to drink moderately, the question This is on page 34, guys, in a chapter called More about alcoholism. We're assuming, of course, that the reader desires to stop again, which is an assumption Bill Wilson understands. Whether such a person can quit on a non spiritual basis depends upon the extent to which he has already lost the power to choose whether he will drink or not.

To get it, let me do it one more time. You've got to get this piece because though you see that whether such a person can quit up on a non spiritual basis depends upon the extent to which he has already lost the power to choose whether he will drink or not. You got a guy goes out and gets the DWI, comes into the fellowship a little bit, goes back out, gets another DWI and says shit, I'm done with the law, I'm going to stay sober. So he walks into the fellowship. The fear of getting another DWI keeps him sober and he stays in the fellowship

and he's welcome, welcome.

But if the cat doesn't have to get connected spiritually to stay sober, that's the catch. You've got to be careful with what's coming out of his damn mouth,

because if his life doesn't depend on God and he tells a newcomer that they don't have to depend on God, then what do we got? This is why we're not staying sober in the fellowship. We've got a bunch of people believing that they can come into this fellowship and share any damn message they want. It's an individual program. That's not what this book says. This book says precisely how we recovered. Precisely how we recovered. That means

that means that that means that Bill Wilson got sober doing certain things. If y'all read in his story What What happened, he ended up doing a fist step with Abby. He's sitting in town's hospital

detoxin. He's already making his damn demands. When he had his barn burning spiritual experience, approximately 9 days in treatment. Y'all with us. And then he goes out and gets get Doctor Bob. And then Doctor Bob has the same kind of spiritual experience. Oh, it's the educational variety. He doesn't see a vision, but the obsession to use is removed from him because he got off his ass and started making his amends. June 10th, that's the birth date of Alcoholics Anonymous. Y'all with us. Two days later they go out and get alcoholic #3 supposedly. And 4:00 and 5:00 and 6:00 and 7:00 and the rest is history. And let me tell you where my passion comes from. Let me tell you where my emotion

from is because those people followed some simple directions and got their arrogant ego out of the way. I'm sober today, 13 years,

and I couldn't stay sober for years because I kept listening to some son of a bitch that believed that they should be able to share anything they wanted into an AA meeting.

I think at Denny's, they got Denny's in New York,

they got Denny's everywhere, don't they? I think at Denny's you should be able to share anything you want. I think around this table back over here having coffee, you should share everything you want. But I think in an AA meeting, when somebody walking in the door and you don't know who you're talking to, you better be talking out of this book. You better be giving somebody the clear message. Are you willing to risk their life? OK, who's risking their life? The people around the fellowship. How many of you guys have heard this? Take your time to work the steps.

We didn't get this sick overnight. We're not going to get well overnight

and we could go just we could take all the little one liners and have a run at them. I mean, it's the bottom line. You can't, you can't cheer any meetings till you've been over six months. You can't work with anybody 'til you've been sober. Jesus, Unbelievable. Who came up with this shit?

Who came up with this crap? Because that's the come on, baby,

come on, baby,

and let the record show that Chris Raymer was not the one that said that.

But it is the absolute truth. It is the absolute truth. A bunch of well meaning people who figure they can make a buck out of this business got hold of this simple message that we were using for 66 years and now you're with me. And now no telling what you might hear. And this is where everybody wants to split hairs with me. Chris, you're not in rehab. I'm not knocking rehab. Rehab is a wonderful thing. It's the same thing when I'm talking about therapy. Therapy is a wonderful thing,

but therapy will not remove the obsession to drink. No human power can remove the obsession of drink. The ABCS in the book were put there for a specific. You think Bill Wilson was just having a bad day when he wrote that stuff?

He got pretty energetic about this business. He said. He said you can defend him every. I mean, if you can get sober for a woman, you're 85% or you're not one of us. If you can get sober for a job, you're not one of us. If you can work through your issues around this, that and the other and come out the other side and the obsession, if you can control it and you can go on, you're not one of us. You all understand that.

But we've watered the whole fellowship down South that everybody can get comfortable and happy.

But you see, we're not here for that. We're here to help the chronic alcoholic whose last hope is a reliance independence in a relationship with God.

Absolutely. And it's not about a belief in God. I know they say you can make a lot of money in the Baptist Church. Hello. What am I doing here with you losers?

Because this is the only thing I can get excited about Alcohol. I mean, I don't know, you know, I don't know.

Let me. Let me. Let me, let me,

let me test some of y'all are big book thumpers and a lot of y'all got some knowledge about the big book. So don't correct. Don't get me if I'm not exactly clear on on every little date menu when Evie came and talked. I'm starting to speak in tongues already when Ebby

let me run something by you.

If an alcoholic is somebody who has lost the power to choose and control his alcohol that the book talks about y'all with me on page 21 it says, and it talks for the next 20 pages about the mental obsession. If you can put alcohol in your body and guarantee me how much you're going to drink every time you with me, you're not one of us. But if there's time that it gets away from you and you drink a bit more. We used to laugh about it. I just drank quicker than most.

I was fast. OK, if you never ever, ever drank a bit more than you intended, you have the physical allergy. OK, I'm sure they talked about this last night. Now the mental obsession piece is is the piece that gets us if given sufficient reason, those two Dwis that screaming match with that wife that whatever it compromise health. If any of that becomes operative, if you can stop

and stay stopped, then you're not one of us. You're with me. OK, So this is what alcoholic alcoholism is about, is about these two words right here, guys. Control and choice. You with me. So when we go into that meeting next week and you'll take me back over to New York someplace and we go into a nice little meeting and some little ladies crying her eyes out because she's the frigging babysitter, didn't show up on time and she was running late and she was just having a terrible day. And, you know, I've got to run in her hose and the guy's back over there and he can't find a job. And he just, he just know.

And then we all sit around and smile and oh, yes. And we try to be patient and tolerant and yeah, and everybody's watching the clock because they can't wait to get out of there because there's absolutely no power in this meeting. What we've got ourselves into is another bit session, another complaining session. We've been delivered from the obsession to drink out of greatest miracle going on in our lives. But we can't find anything good to talk about. All we can do is bitch about something else.

Y'all with me and we sit there and tolerate it. We sit. There's a lady that wrote an article in Box 4591 time and one day, and she's supposedly from New York, I'm going to find this lady and hug her. I don't know this way. She had 15 years of sobriety. I've talked about it on every tape I've ever done. She had about 15 years of sobriety when she wrote the article. And she said in this, she said, at what point does live and let live become apathy?

At what point does live and let live become apathy? At what point am I going to sit there and listen to you piss and moan again and again and again in a meeting and turn my back in the guise of patience and tolerance? When am I going to turn to you and say, hey, buddy, what are you and me? Step outside after the meeting and finish this conversation. But right now, there's some people that have had spiritual experiences in this room that would like to share their hope with a newcomer.

You mean to paraphrase it? Why don't you shut up?

And you see, I say this on the podium, I'm not, I'm not expecting you to go into your meeting if somebody gets off, you know what I mean? And that's what a lot of y'all do. And you think,

guys, I lost his eye in a rock fight, not in an, A, A meeting.

I mean, I, I don't we see fighting anything or anyone. It's a ten step promise. Your job is not to go in an A A meeting and pick fights. I'm not suggesting that you do that. I'm saying as a group, we need to look at our group conscience and we need to look and see what we're doing in our meetings. Open discussion meetings, outnumbered literature based meetings about 6:00 to 1:00. You can go to Dallas, TX right now. There's an area there's about 1500 meetings a week in the Dallas Fort Worth area. Only 25 of those are literature based meeting. Did you all get down with this? That's why nobody can get sober. If you want to talk about the fucking divorce one more time,

we you've got a bunch of choices, you see. But if you want to go read about the solution, you've got to hunt and pick,

you see, and that's the problem because, and this is exactly what my sister back here was saying, it's the treatment centers that have gotten in the middle of this. If you're having a bad day, you need to go share. You need to go talk about it.

Why?

I mean I'm sorry, I'm sorry but but I mean really can we get serious? But what? Why do you need to go share it? Selfish is in self centeredness that they cover so beautifully. Today is the root of my problem. What I need to do is get out of myself and and try to help somebody else have a better day. And you want me to go to obedience? Just talk about my shit some more. Why don't you just hand me a lit cigarette and dump me with gas?

Here buddy, smoke this. This will help.

Isn't it the truth? All right, let me ask you a question. Did anybody hear me say that you shouldn't talk about your problems?

I'm not. I usually need to talk about your problems. But why don't you talk to your It's exactly what Dave said this afternoon. Why don't you look around the fellowship, OK, and find somebody who has had some similar problems. And then after the meeting you'll go to dinner and talk about that. You see, there's two different things going on here. There's the fellowship over here and there's the program over here and you're in the fellowship. Jesus, we've got look at the look at the knowledge and the experience that I could glean from this room about anything I ever wanted to know. I mean truly.

I mean, some of it some pretty sick shit, I'm sure. But

but you know, I'm sure you few you crack addict slipped in these rooms too, didn't you? Yeah, Yeah,

I do. Pegged right off the bat, I know. Really. No. Come on, guys, of course we can do that. But. But in a meeting, we have one message. Our fifth tradition says we have one primary purpose, and that's to help the alcoholic get sober, folks. And if you're talking about the divorce, then you're missing the point, because if she's drinking over the divorce, she ain't one of us.

We're buying into it. We're feeding into it. Here's the picture we're painting. Now, guys, This is why some of you are feeling uncomfortable, including myself, 'cause I'm gonna tell you I've done it. I did it for years. Walk into a meeting, dump my problems right, expect you all to fix it, and then walk out and wonder why I couldn't stay sober. You all understand it. We're painting a picture for the world out there that if I can work with you and keep you in a place where you don't have any highs or any lows and then all your problems be taken care of, that you can stay sober.

Guys, ladies,

are you all play with me if you would please. You don't have to if you don't want to, but raise your hand at this. Raise your hand if you drank when you had lots of money.

Let the record show every hand enough places up. How many when you didn't have any money?

How many when you lived in a big beautiful place like New York City?

How many when your little stupid place like Ingram, Texas?

How many when you lived in a big old $300,000 home, a double wide?

That's shit. Leave them up. Just leave the hands up. How many? Here's the kicker. How many when you use in a relationship with somebody that's an Angel, a tremendous relationship with somebody How many we use date and Satan.

So why is it that we

talked about it earlier? It's it's like, it's like Fred. Fred doesn't in the stories in the 23 to 43, Fred says the best line in the book. It was the end of a perfect day, not a cloud on the horizon. What does this do? He goes, gets drunk.

It's so perfect. I'll say, well, I'll just go screw it up. And every one of us in here have done it. Why? Because we have lost the ability to choose whether we're going to do it or not. My circumstances are not

a prerequisite for whether I'm going to drink or not. So why have we turned our meetings into a damn therapy session where it's all we talk about is our circumstances? Let's talk about the message. Let's talk about the power. Let's talk about God. You with us?

I'll move on.

I got a few minutes with you because I got to get this out and I'm fixing to choke.

Let's chat about these war stories.

Let's chat about the reason that we can't keep the young adults in our fellowship. Let's chat about why so many women

or leaving this fellowship.

Who do you think you are with those war stories?

I go back to Bill's story.

I've been thrown under the bus so many times of this. I people come up after after I talk and it's just the you just, I just see it on their faces. They're coming up. I know, I know you don't have to say it. Our stories are all we have because that's what we're taught. Our stories are all we have. Folks, let me tell you something. I didn't fly all this way up here 12 hours in a airport yesterday so I could come up here and share a stupid war story with you. Now I'm going to tell you something I ate out of the dumpsters in Houston, TX. And I've done some stuff on the street that I wouldn't talk to about in mixed company. I've done some crazy, stupid,

stupid things. You're with me, but I'm not up here to talk to you about that. I'm up here to talk to you about my life today in sobriety and how absolutely as cool it is to wake up and have that obsession gone. And if we have more people pulling people with the vision of that stuff instead of trying to scare some more on into these rooms, we would have success rates where we had them before.

Let me tell you what the difference is. All you all want to take this and run with it because of course I have some stories. Let me tell you what Bill Wilson did. Evie comes into his kitchen and they talk and they visit a little bit and they share a few little stories and get gets Bill's confidence gets his. They identify a bit with their drinking. You with me. And then Ebby does this. You can't see this on tape, but y'all see it. Some of y'all fishermen will know what I'm doing, right? Right. And Ebby, he sets the hook, you know, and he tells him about God and what he's doing right? And then Bill does the work.

Bill Wilson, he goes and sees, after a bunch of false starts, Bill gets sober and he and he goes to Doctor Bob's house, right? And he sits down with Doctor Bob and they share a few drinking stories. They sit down and start talking a little bit. And Bob understands that Bill really understands what he's talking about. And then he sets the hook. He tells him about God in the steps. You're with us. And Doctor Bob gets the deal and they go to alcoholic #3 it's the story's in the back, back in the vision for you. And it talks about them going to the third alcoholic. And they do the same thing.

Tell a few stories. Do they tell all their stories? Do they tell a big long repertoire of drunkalogs to bore the poor son of a bitch to death? They don't do any of that.

I'm going to go into an A a meeting and Randy's going to be in there and she's not in a good place and she's irritable, restless and discontent. She's suffering from depression that only an alcoholic truly understands. Y'all understand that? And the fear that we talked about all day long is eating her ass and she's contemplating at the moment. If this doesn't work, you know, my only solution is to go off myself.

You know, 'cause this is ceased being fun, the party's over.

I want to die

now. Then I have some nasty stories I could tell her about the dumpster,

but she looks like a businesswoman to me. I could share some of my business stories with her and how I showed up at workloaded you with me. She could identify with that. I could talk to some of my you see folks, I was not always eating out of dumpsters. Sometimes I was living in a penthouse in Houston, TX, you see, and I have to look and see where is my story best going to help her. That's called 12 step.

Speaking from the podium, telling your story is called telling your story. Let's don't get this shit confused, folks, because all of us are doing it. We're walking into a meeting and the first thing I'm doing? Hell, honey, you don't want to end up like me, do you?

And she and she backed up a little bit. Let me let me tell you about let me tell you about eating out of dumpsters. She backs up a little bit more and, and before about too many minutes has gone on, I have separated myself from her completely because I have a message of hope for her. But I, I'm not going to get a chance to tell her because we've already separated each other with a stupid war stories.

I need to tell you a little bit about what's inside folks. I need to talk about the spiritual malady that Mark and Dave been talking about all weekend. I need to talk to you about this feeling of emptiness and the boredom and the depression and the anxiety and the gut wrenching fear that we live with on a daily basis. And I'm going to tell you something. She'll relate and I don't have to give her any stupid war stories. She'll relate to that. And then I can set the hook and tell her exactly what she needs to do to come out the other side smelling like a rose. It's called Work the 12 steps.

Not any way you want it exactly the way the book outlined. Is she going to do it exactly the way I did it? No. She'll put her own twist on it, guys. I'm down with that. But she will work the steps and as a result of working the steps, she will get the absolute guaranteed spiritual experience. We got too many people standing around this this fellowship who have never had a spiritual experience talking like gurus from the podium.

We got way too many people in meetings sharing their damned opinions with a newcomer.

We don't have enough people standing for what this needs to be about, which is truth. We need some people that are going to stand and listen to somebody. Listen, folks, if you tell an alcoholic, and I'm going to this one time, I mean, I realize this is an A, a, but if you, if I know we got some crack addicts in here, we got some cocaine addicts in here. I'm going to tell you straight, if you ask a cocaine addict or somebody who is truly an alcoholic to wait a year before they get active in this fellowship, they're dead.

And what's the truth with my bullshit when I'm standing in front of a newcomer, telling them to take their time to work the steps?

We'll get on that next week. What am I? What's the truth? The truth is I don't want them to take their time so they can do it thoroughly. I the truth is this, I don't have time to mess with them 'cause I'm too busy with my own stuff. Is that the truth?

I dust them off in 1987 after that suicide attempt. Folks, I'm going to tell you something. I was so done with living it wasn't even funny.

Antidepressants, I'd take it all my life had stopped working and I was,

guys, the paranoia was gut wrenching and I was starving to death 'cause I was too afraid to even go in the store and buy food and I had no money. And it was just,

and it was right before Christmas and here it was again. I had no money for gifts and I had plenty of love around me, a lot of family that loved me. But my life was in the toilet and I'd wake up in the morning and say I'm not going to drink and I'm not going to do any drugs. And by that night I'd be doing it again. Didn't know exactly how to get around this, you know, but I've always had somebody to blame. And at the last resort, after that suicide attempt, I landed back in a room full of Alcoholics and full of Alcoholics who were all carrying big books.

Guys, I cannot tell you how many times I travel. I travel hundreds of times a year, folks. I'm going to tell you little groups, big groups, wherever it is. And you walk in the room and look around. Oh, excuse me, you got a big book on you? A big book or no? They sell those back up the central service office.

It's like walking into an emergency room, you know? It's like, anybody got any medicine in here, you know?